Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

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DiceyCZ
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Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by DiceyCZ »

Hello,
I have reported it before in the general thread but it never got much attention so I am creating a new topic.

When picking a familiar from the list provided by the "Imrpoved Familiar" list, the familiar's level only is 15, this applies to all the Improved Familiars provided for my character. However when I pick any of the original familiars their level is correctly 25 according to my class spread - 4 rogue / 6 wizard / 10 Eldritch Knight / 10 Arcane Trickster. This leads me to believe that for the improved familiars the Arcane Trickster doesn't count towards their level (6wiz+9Ek) because if it was the Eldritch Knight, familiar level would be 16 (6wiz+10AT)

Image
Image

Can someone please have a look at it? Thank you :)
Niyressa Dawncrow (bio) - Head Magus, Bladestone Foundation
"Magic is Chaos, Art, and Science. It is a curse, a blessing, and progress. It all depends on who uses magic, how they use it, and to what purpose. And magic is everywhere. All around us.” - Yennefer
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Nemni
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Re: Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by Nemni »

Revision: 797
Date: Saturday, June 24, 2017 2:50:09 AM
Message:
Familiars rebalanced. Now limited to 17 HD.
Ilbrandlin creature updated.
Planar Ally scaling limited.
Looks like it was intentional. I suppose a level 29 dragon was considered too much.
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DiceyCZ
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Re: Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by DiceyCZ »

I see had no idea it was intentional and I understand that statwise I suppose even though except for the higher dex/str the dragon has less BAB but...now that we can pick a spell for the familiar to use like ability and improved familiars don't get bonus abilities automatically like they used to, doesn't that ability suffer since there's 10 level dip as opposed to regular familiars? Those pictures are taken 5 minutes apart, if they are limited to 17 HD, why do old familiars have lvl 25? I might be wrong but isn't HD synonyme to level? Number of times you roll a hit die.
Niyressa Dawncrow (bio) - Head Magus, Bladestone Foundation
"Magic is Chaos, Art, and Science. It is a curse, a blessing, and progress. It all depends on who uses magic, how they use it, and to what purpose. And magic is everywhere. All around us.” - Yennefer
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Nemni
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Re: Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by Nemni »

The old familiars scale up to level 29 but are quite weak by default. It does not take practiced spellcaster into account in the scaling which is why your bat is only level 25. The dragon still looks better even with a lower level though. Do you notice a lower duration on the familiar SLA due to the lower level?
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DiceyCZ
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Re: Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by DiceyCZ »

I'll test out durations and other effects based on CL, but if you look at the stats they are kinda on par, dragon has more AB, but bat has more attacks, dragon has more AC and HP but Bat has higher saves, their dmg is pretty much the same too 5 vs 4-7. So they are very similar power wise so the deciding factor would be the spell-like ability.
Niyressa Dawncrow (bio) - Head Magus, Bladestone Foundation
"Magic is Chaos, Art, and Science. It is a curse, a blessing, and progress. It all depends on who uses magic, how they use it, and to what purpose. And magic is everywhere. All around us.” - Yennefer
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DiceyCZ
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Re: Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by DiceyCZ »

Just tested it:

Bat - Greater Invisibility: 2m30s
Faerie Dragon - Greater Invisibility: 1m30s

That's whole 10 CL difference, meanwhile familiars can't even fight unless you control them and right click attack because their default action on enemy is "Examine"
Niyressa Dawncrow (bio) - Head Magus, Bladestone Foundation
"Magic is Chaos, Art, and Science. It is a curse, a blessing, and progress. It all depends on who uses magic, how they use it, and to what purpose. And magic is everywhere. All around us.” - Yennefer
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Nemni
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Re: Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by Nemni »

Familiars aren't really supposed to fight though. But I asked about the CL because I found it suspicious in the script. Thanks for testing! I'm sure it's fixable.
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DiceyCZ
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Re: Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by DiceyCZ »

Thanks Nemni! :) And yeah I know they aren't I was meant to mention that's why I think it's more important to have level on par because of the CL should their stats get weakend as result or something.
Niyressa Dawncrow (bio) - Head Magus, Bladestone Foundation
"Magic is Chaos, Art, and Science. It is a curse, a blessing, and progress. It all depends on who uses magic, how they use it, and to what purpose. And magic is everywhere. All around us.” - Yennefer
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Re: Improved Familiar - level not matching caster

Unread post by Valefort »

No idea why that was done, it'll be reverted, improved familiars will have the same HD as vanilla familiars.
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