Flaming Fist Fort Map - IC Jurisdiction and Metagaming Guards

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DM Golem
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Flaming Fist Fort Map - IC Jurisdiction and Metagaming Guards

Unread post by DM Golem » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:35 am

Hi all,

In order to clear up any confusion and make things clear, the laws of Baldur's Gate apply on the map with the Flaming Fist fort on the Winding Water on it.

Also, please remember there are guard patrols on this map and so any PVP or criminality without DM supervision would be godmoding the guards, as it would be in the eastern farmlands or Baldur's Gate city. Lawful duels and sparring are an exception to this, although the former may lead to IC consequences in any event.

Thankyou and I hope this clears up any confusion.

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Re: Flaming Fist Fort Map - IC Jurisdiction and Metagaming Guards

Unread post by Sputnik » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:14 pm

Since this area is now under official BG jurisdiction, wouldn't that mean that the following laws would also apply?
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- Spell casting — forms of arcane or divine usage of magic that result in physical harm or manipulation of the other, are forbidden.

- Summons of Elemental or Companion in nature are forbidden, and such action will result in punishment fitting the crime. Summons of all other means, such be it undead or planar in nature, shall result in banishment or death of the summoner, as determined by judicial ruling.
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Re: Flaming Fist Fort Map - IC Jurisdiction and Metagaming Guards

Unread post by Wade » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:35 pm

I disagree that the dangerous frontline that could use any aid, is constantly attacked and can be breached anymoment should have the same rules as peaceful farmlands. So far, we have had two (three?) orcs, necromancy usage (but no undead), Ebon Blades with banite broches and so forth helping to defend the barricades, this RP was awesome, does it mean this all really should be retconned? Instead, I think it should be noted RP wise that all the abovementioned shady people actually protected the fort from destruction. Also, does it mean summoning elementals/angels should be banned as well? And face covering is not allowed? This doesn't make any sense!

My point is the frontline must have special rules and have lots of exceptions and be in general more tolerant to various shady acts than the rest of the Duchal lands.

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Re: Flaming Fist Fort Map - IC Jurisdiction and Metagaming Guards

Unread post by metaquad4 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:19 pm

With guards so powerful as to create peace-time circumstances on a war front, who even needs player assistance? :lol: Our job is done folks, no need to assist the NPCs any more.

Yeah, this seems a little odd. I guess all the enemy needs to do is strap cats to them and use enlarged kittens as cavalry. Players who attack them will be godmodding war criminals!

Not to mention, as pointed at above, all casters who proceed to cast offensive or summoning spells are also godmodding.
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Re: Flaming Fist Fort Map - IC Jurisdiction and Metagaming Guards

Unread post by Mallore » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:43 pm

People. Apply a bit of common sense here.

It’s a war front and the laws of Baldurs Gate in the past and probably somewhere buried in a dm ruling would allow the use of summons and magic near the Fist for the defense of the greater good.

You summon an elemental. Have your sword out or all that jazz fighting the devils that’s okay.

You want to summon a vampire and murder another player. That is not.

Common sense is applied to the military front. Has always been and always will.

Do we really need to waste the DMs time writing a more clear ruling in what should be played common sense. Infact I hope the DMs don’t clear up this matter and let players discover these niches ic. It really is obvious, and for any character unsure. Ask another character ic. It is neat we are in a persistent world and what better way then to have laws learned and boundaries discovered.
Last edited by Mallore on Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Flaming Fist Fort Map - IC Jurisdiction and Metagaming Guards

Unread post by ice_cold535 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:45 pm

Im not sure I agree with some of the statements. In regards to Necromancy, Banites and Orcs. It should be understood that it IS a warfront manned primarily by the Fist among other factions. If such people are seen coming to the front, it would be foolish to think they would not be stopped or questioned regarding illicit activity wandering blindly through a war barricade starting PVP fights and arguements without thinking that the Fist would get involved.

So from that point of view, I understand the idea of it being Godmodding. The shady people proudly showing symbols of Banite on their chest would SURELY be stopped? Wouldnt they? And if they were, then how would they be there in the first place to assist in defending the place?

Not sure, but it doesnt make much sense to me. A bit like how I wouldnt walk into the Underdark as a surface character, save it against Rabid moles and then call myself a champion of Shaamath, as for that reason that I do not think I would get that far. :)

Not that I want to argue about it, its just my thoughts! :D

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Re: Flaming Fist Fort Map - IC Jurisdiction and Metagaming Guards

Unread post by Ariella » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:08 pm

I mean common sense should tell you what's allowed, but it couldn't hurt to have a list of law exceptions for the fort. That said carrying a Bane Symbol, summoning undead, murdering people or just generally disrupting the defence is obviously not going to be tolerated. The flaming fist is strongly lawful aligned, they are not going to accept just any help especially if it add a chaotic element to the defence. However there are two war fronts IG so if you want to fight devils with undead, just head out to soubar with friends and get the rp going on the bridge.

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Re: Flaming Fist Fort Map - IC Jurisdiction and Metagaming Guards

Unread post by Bobthehero » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:12 pm

Wade wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:35 pm
Ebon Blades with banite broches
Zhentarim* :lol: although its not too obvious to those outside the Zhentarim

Personally, I had my Banite respect the law regarding mentionning worship of Bane around the front, just in case.
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Re: Flaming Fist Fort Map - IC Jurisdiction and Metagaming Guards

Unread post by The Whistler » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:19 pm

There is strict protocol for entry to any militarized zone in the modern world and I assume the same goes for our make believe universe. Allowing anyone to come and go as they please is a surefire way to have your back lines sabotaged by malice and your front lines sabotaged by ineptitude. Not just orcs and obvious banites, but also well meaning individuals should keep that in mind when they're entering a battlefield. Take your time to introduce yourselves to the more veteran PCs there, ask them how your character may be of use to the war effort and follow their lead. I'm sure they'll be glad to point you in the right direction.
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Re: Flaming Fist Fort Map - IC Jurisdiction and Metagaming Guards

Unread post by Mallore » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:32 pm

The Whistler wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:19 pm
There is strict protocol for entry to any militarized zone in the modern world and I assume the same goes for our make believe universe. Allowing anyone to come and go as they please is a surefire way to have your back lines sabotaged by malice and your front lines sabotaged by ineptitude. Not just orcs and obvious banites, but also well meaning individuals should keep that in mind when they're entering a battlefield. Take your time to introduce yourselves to the more veteran PCs there, ask them how your character may be of use to the war effort and follow their lead. I'm sure they'll be glad to point you in the right direction.


Agree. 110%

And in my view....

There is atleast one character that has basically rp the last 30+ irl days there. I think he would be a veteran that any new or regular arrival should talk to.
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Re: Flaming Fist Fort Map - IC Jurisdiction and Metagaming Guards

Unread post by Wade » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:06 pm

Mallore wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:32 pm
The Whistler wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:19 pm
There is strict protocol for entry to any militarized zone in the modern world and I assume the same goes for our make believe universe. Allowing anyone to come and go as they please is a surefire way to have your back lines sabotaged by malice and your front lines sabotaged by ineptitude. Not just orcs and obvious banites, but also well meaning individuals should keep that in mind when they're entering a battlefield. Take your time to introduce yourselves to the more veteran PCs there, ask them how your character may be of use to the war effort and follow their lead. I'm sure they'll be glad to point you in the right direction.


Agree. 110%

And in my view....

There is atleast one character that has basically rp the last 30+ irl days there. I think he would be a veteran that any new or regular arrival should talk to.
I also agree, but this also means that the laws of this military object would significantly differ from the laws of peaceful farmlands, for example. You can't just apply city laws there with no changes.

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Re: Flaming Fist Fort Map - IC Jurisdiction and Metagaming Guards

Unread post by Rain » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:40 pm

It's a strange rule at-least from my perspective from an RP sense but I can understand it from a mechanic / In game sense.

I find it a little hard to believe that a front-line to an active battle field which is being constantly attacked by trolls, devils andall manner of hellish creatures would be able to just nullify chaotic action in the area in every corner, during every hour of the day. Realistically it's just impossible for the solid fact that the area is already chaotic in nature simply for the fact that it is a battle-feild already. There is constant fighting there and countless injuries to date and so be believe the guards there simply wounder out past the barricade and past the seemingly endless amount of hostile creatures that they are defending from on a regular basis to secure the area is far fetched.

Now I can understand the area behind the barricade as well as the bridge crossing as a NO GO ZONE similar to rules that govern the area around the gate to the FAI and it's walls. But to strictly point god modding if a person is scheming past the guarded barricade inside the lines of the fiends and trolls ESPECIALLY at night. . . No sorry not in the current situation there. Maybe if there was some DM rumored push back of the devils from the area AND there was no mob spawns there I could be more open to agree with the recent law ruling there.

But in understanding the DM's probably want less hassle to deal with in the area as they are already busy enough. I can understand why it is in place for that reason.

///Edit: Of course this all just my opinion not stating anything I say matter of factly.
Last edited by Rain on Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flaming Fist Fort Map - IC Jurisdiction and Metagaming Guards

Unread post by Flayeriv » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:53 pm

Speaking as one of the orcs affected by this.

I am totally cool with it.

Fact is, that a regimented warzone would do its best to eliminate any IMMEDIATE and OBVIOUS threats. This includes people who either are orcs, are hiding their faces behind masks, or who cast particularl heinous magic. While the statement "Baldur's Gate Law" may be thrown around, the practicalities are the thing that matters.

It's perfectly In Character to say "Baldur's Gate Law" and for the Fist to then happily overlook certain things, such as the summoning of archons or elementals or whatever. Sure, it might be more accurate for the fist to enact a form of Martial Law or Wartime Law, but that's politics that I don't have the right characters to RP with :p. But seriously, for me it's a bummer because some of the best RP was on the barricade, but at the same time, there's the Boareskyr Bridge available, and on top of that it gives my character more incentive to try and be friendly with the Fist.

The only thing I'd like to see is a couple more fist soldiers floating around near the bridge. Just at the bridge, I think that will make ALL of the difference RPwise.

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Re: Flaming Fist Fort Map - IC Jurisdiction and Metagaming Guards

Unread post by dolorof » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:13 pm

The Whistler wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:19 pm
There is strict protocol for entry to any militarized zone in the modern world and I assume the same goes for our make believe universe. Allowing anyone to come and go as they please is a surefire way to have your back lines sabotaged by malice and your front lines sabotaged by ineptitude. Not just orcs and obvious banites, but also well meaning individuals should keep that in mind when they're entering a battlefield. Take your time to introduce yourselves to the more veteran PCs there, ask them how your character may be of use to the war effort and follow their lead. I'm sure they'll be glad to point you in the right direction.
I think this is right, as long as those PCs agree to be inclusive and not exclusive for personal reasons.
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Re: Flaming Fist Fort Map - IC Jurisdiction and Metagaming Guards

Unread post by RagingPeace » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:45 am

I play an unregistered warlock, and have been fighting on the front often. Im a little confused how to go forward. Some people talk common sense, but in my experience people can be very oocly strict when it comes to rules. Am i to understand, that if my character is called in to aid on the frontline, that he will face punishment after said battle? Or will i be godmodding when if i use spells?
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