For a while now deathward has been improved to be more like it's pen and paper counterpart. Unfortunately I am not high king of Skyrim Nwn2 is not pen and paper and removing deathward's ability to stop ability drain and damage has what I assume is unintended balance consequences.
[See Crippling strike sneak snowball builds]
While the previous incarnation saw the use of Deathward wand vs Breach wand in terms of defensive and offensive counter play while the current incarnation requires enough UMD or a master alchemist to provide stonebody scrolls/elixirs for preventative measures.
You could say Use a wand/potion of restoration, but in terms of action economy that is an efficient way to not longer exist.
My secondary suggestion if deathward is going to remain in it's pen and paper state we upgrade heal to act as it should in Pen and paper and apply the logic used to justify the deathward change to healing spells.
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Crippling strike is that very reason I agree with this post. Yes, Death ward was overpowered before, but after its nerf crippling strike became overpowered instead. I play a strength based character and one flurry of crippling strike blows makes it overburdened. No save, no protection from it, nothing — is it normal? (it's not) The only protection from it is stone/iron body, but it lowers your ac dramatically and cuts your movespeed unless you had FoM on you before, seems like an overkill to spend so much efforts countering a passive feat triggering with every sneak attack.
I'd say the thread should be called "nerf crippling strike" instead and I fully support it. This ability is OP. It should be made Fort-save based with a DC equal to Blinding strike DC or something.
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KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:01 pm
Crippling strike is that very reason I agree with this post. Yes, Death ward was overpowered before, but after its nerf crippling strike became overpowered instead. I play a strength based character and one flurry of crippling strike blows makes it overburdened. No save, no protection from it, nothing — is it normal? (it's not) The only protection from it is stone/iron body, but it lowers your ac dramatically and cuts your movespeed unless you had FoM on you before, seems like an overkill to spend so much efforts countering a passive feat triggering with every sneak attack.
I'd say the thread should be called "nerf crippling strike" instead and I fully support it. This ability is OP. It should be made Fort-save based with a DC equal to Blinding strike DC or something.
Honestly, while I like Grendunor's secondary suggestion... it definitely wouldn't solve this problem.
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You could shut down an integral class mechanic of an otherwise pretty (p00pie) class with a single spell or two (pfa/mindblank and death ward).
You don't need fort saves. Rogues already have basically no AB.
Spotting sneakers is stupid easy. You have 1d20 bonus on top of more abundant gear and buffs.
You can fix ability damage with a potion of lesser restoration with ease.
This is a PvP issue anyway, so pretty irrelevant.
In PvE, rogues must have crippling strike work without a save to have a fighting chance, as it helps mitigate their non-existent AC which is forced on them by grossly-inflated spot/listen scores mandating a full set of stealth gear over what you would normally go for.
I do however support buffing Heal to P&P levels.
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Hoihe wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:58 am
You can fix ability damage with a potion of lesser restoration with ease.
problem solved...
if you can cast death ward you can cast lesser restore
if you can use death ward UMD you can use lesser restore UMD
...im not seeing an issue here
The OP did address why that was a problem. If you spend each round drinking restoration potions or using restoration wands, you are essentially locked down, harmless until the ability damage stops coming. (Which... admittedly, should happen unless you're being flanked or fighting a HiPS build. Then again, since this constitutes the majority of half-decent builds that would have access to Crippling Strike in the first place... )
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Hoihe wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:58 am
I am 100% certain this was the intended change.
You could shut down an integral class mechanic of an otherwise pretty (p00pie) class with a single spell or two (pfa/mindblank and death ward).
You don't need fort saves. Rogues already have basically no AB.
Spotting sneakers is stupid easy. You have 1d20 bonus on top of more abundant gear and buffs.
You can fix ability damage with a potion of lesser restoration with ease.
This is a PvP issue anyway, so pretty irrelevant.
In PvE, rogues must have crippling strike work without a save to have a fighting chance, as it helps mitigate their non-existent AC which is forced on them by grossly-inflated spot/listen scores mandating a full set of stealth gear over what you would normally go for.
I do however support buffing Heal to P&P levels.
You're selling rogues extremely short, Hoihe, but yes, it's a PvP issue and it -is- rellevant.
For a moment, even before DW nerf every single rogue build still used to pick this feat as a prerequisite for epic precision. And now this feat also gives extremely powerful ability drain that doesn't require to click any extra buttons or otherwise put efforts — it just automatically triggers with any sneak attack. In other words, you play the same quite playable and powerful rogue, BUT you're also sapping enemy's strength to the ground and make them unable to move with every attack. And it's just one passive feat that wasn't even picked for that purpose!
Overpowered feat is not something that can't be countered at all. It's something that gives too many benefits for a disproportionately small cost. Swashbuckler's weakening critical, for instance, is well balanced. Crippling strike is not.
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KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:57 amSwashbuckler's weakening critical, for instance, is well balanced. Crippling strike is not.
Yes it is, for rogue heavy builds at least. They have to get something out of being complete gimps VS server content, don't they?
Oh, wait... do you even have a toon with rogue heavy investment? I'm betting not, because, if you did, you'd complain less about crippling strike, and more about those low Will and Fort saves.
There are no level 30's, only level 20's with benefits...
Side note: Got a feeling this deathward change was to nerf the hellfire warlock con drain immunity. Probably alongside other reasons of course.
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