Northlander Hewing and Ground Slam

[sir_blacksoutalot]

I would appreciate some insight on Northlander Hewing. And, in particular, how it applies the special proc attack to Ground Slam. But first, for ease of reference, here is the current description on the BG Wiki:

Northlander hewing is a style of melee combat made famous by the Northern barbarian tribes, who are renowned for the savage strength they can put behind each blow. You limit yourself to 2/3 of your attacks (rounded to nearest integer). You add your strength modifier as extra physical damage. Due to the strength you must put behind your blows you suffer a dodge AC penalty of -2.

(Updates from 1 June 2019: Maximize damage effect and AB penalty removed.) Randomly triggered ability depending on your weapon type added (ground slam for bludgeoning, bleeding for piercing, whirlwind for slashing weapons).

Gameplay Notes:
- All attacks are counted, whatever their source is (haste, whirlwind frenzy). You lose the last attacks of your normal attack schedule, even though those are not shown on your character sheet.
- The combat stance Northlander Hewing can be combined with combat modes like Power attack, Combat Expertise and their upgrades.
- Northlander Hewing doesn't add damage to Shieldbash attacks nor does it reduce Shieldbash attacks per round.

Plus this from IG feat description (the rest of the IG text matches agrees with above):
- The only magical damage is your base weapon damage and any additional physical damage. Due to a game bug, the critically hits are computed normally and not maximized.

So I'm confused on a few points, for which I'll number to try to keep this clear for others to learn from:

(1) The update from 2019 describes that the damage bonus was removed and replaced by a randomly triggered ability. So in essence, the NH now only provides a randomly triggered effect and nothing more, at a cost of 1/3 of your attacks. Am I understanding that correctly?

(2) Despite the IG description about criticals not applying, I can attest to the fact they do trigger. But in my forum search I saw a post stating that this crit issue was somehow tied to the way NH used to add STR damage, and that the 2019 change fixed the crit issue. So maybe that explains this item.

(3) Regarding the Ground Slam effect, I just tested it with a warmace in the Eastern Cloakwood. For my lvl 12 melee build, these mobs are not a tough challenge. In the ten minutes that I tested NH, I triggered Ground Slam six times. Each set of encounters triggered a totally different DC for each mob, as follows:
- 20,12,14,20 (four Tasloi)
- 17,17,10,19
- 15
- 15
- 21, 11 (two Tasloi)
- 13,18

On average, I'd say about 25% failed their reflex DC. I know that because I could see the failure reported in the combat log. But what's not reported is what Ground Slam does. There's no indication in the combat log, no VFX, nothing to help me understand what my Ground Slam actually accomplished. Like is it a stun? A caster interrupt? What the heck does it actually do?

I would appreciate if someone could help shed some light on these questions. Thanks!

[zhazz]

(1) The update from 2019 describes that the damage bonus was removed and replaced by a randomly triggered ability. So in essence, the NH now only provides a randomly triggered effect and nothing more, at a cost of 1/3 of your attacks. Am I understanding that correctly?

It still adds bonus damage, but it no longer maximises damage rolls, nor does it apply a penalty to AB.
Using NH gives you Str Mod as bonus damage, and an effect based on weapon damage type.

(2) Despite the IG description about criticals not applying, I can attest to the fact they do trigger. But in my forum search I saw a post stating that this crit issue was somehow tied to the way NH used to add STR damage, and that the 2019 change fixed the crit issue. So maybe that explains this item.

I am using NH on one of my characters, and can confirm that the bonus damage is multiplied by critical hits.

(3) Regarding the Ground Slam effect, I just tested it with a warmace in the Eastern Cloakwood. For my lvl 12 melee build, these mobs are not a tough challenge. In the ten minutes that I tested NH, I triggered Ground Slam six times. Each set of encounters triggered a totally different DC for each mob, as follows:
- 20,12,14,20 (four Tasloi)
- 17,17,10,19
- 15
- 15
- 21, 11 (two Tasloi)
- 13,18

On average, I'd say about 25% failed their reflex DC. I know that because I could see the failure reported in the combat log. But what's not reported is what Ground Slam does. There's no indication in the combat log, no VFX, nothing to help me understand what my Ground Slam actually accomplished. Like is it a stun? A caster interrupt? What the heck does it actually do?

Groundslam knocks enemies down, which will interrupt casters, and stop retreating mobs. Knocked down monsters are considered Prone, which increases your effectibe AB against them by +4.

[sir_blacksoutalot]

Thanks Zhazz, I appreciate the very clear and thorough response!

I checked my character sheet and I can see that the extra damage is being added, which is great.

I'll have to keep a closer eye on the Ground Slam effect. When I tested earlier, everything happened so fast it was hard to tell whether a knockdown occurred.

Now here's a curious thing: the description says that activating the feat reduces your attacks to by 2/3. Well my lvl 12 warrior (full melee) has three attacks, but when I activate NH it doesn't reduce my attacks. Seems to me they should be reduced to 2 of 3 attacks. Does this make any sense to you?

[Theodore01]

It does reduce your attacks, but the char-sheet is not correct regarding the attack numbers.

[izzul]

Now here's a curious thing: the description says that activating the feat reduces your attacks to by 2/3. Well my lvl 12 warrior (full melee) has three attacks, but when I activate NH it doesn't reduce my attacks. Seems to me they should be reduced to 2 of 3 attacks. Does this make any sense to you?

some people still get 6 attacks(26BAB) after activating NH

some people (my account) attacks were reduced

so consider yourself lucky to be the chosen one

[Zeland]

(3) Regarding the Ground Slam effect, I just tested it with a warmace in the Eastern Cloakwood. For my lvl 12 melee build, these mobs are not a tough challenge. In the ten minutes that I tested NH, I triggered Ground Slam six times. Each set of encounters triggered a totally different DC for each mob, as follows:
- 20,12,14,20 (four Tasloi)
- 17,17,10,19
- 15
- 15
- 21, 11 (two Tasloi)
- 13,18

I am also curious how the dc for the Ground Slam is calculated. I seem to get random different DCs on my NH build as well.

[zhazz]

(3) Regarding the Ground Slam effect, I just tested it with a warmace in the Eastern Cloakwood. For my lvl 12 melee build, these mobs are not a tough challenge. In the ten minutes that I tested NH, I triggered Ground Slam six times. Each set of encounters triggered a totally different DC for each mob, as follows:
- 20,12,14,20 (four Tasloi)
- 17,17,10,19
- 15
- 15
- 21, 11 (two Tasloi)
- 13,18

I am also curious how the dc for the Ground Slam is calculated. I seem to get random different DCs on my NH build as well.

I would like to know that as well.
What I expected it to be would be something similar to how the DC for Man-at-Arms abilities is calculated, so one of the two:

• 10 + CharLevel/2 + Str Mod
• 10 + BAB/2 + Str Mod

But so far it seems to be completely random, and at best is 5 + 1d20 + Str Mod to determine the DC.