Monthly 100% RCR

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realayer
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Re: Monthly 100% RCR

Unread post by realayer »

I am grateful that BGTSCC is a public and free to play server. I just tried to offer my views on RCR and on how players' experience can be improved. Not everyone have to agree with my views, but these are my opinions.

People who want to exploit will exploit regardless of any restrictions in place. People who want to have an instant L30 characters will exploit the 100% RCR implementation. However, for those who have legitimate needs (fixing builds, feats, etc) for it, there are reasons for 100% RCR to exist. As I mentioned, I am willing to RCR with xp loss to fix my build and character after 4 years of absence and numerous changes happened in this server. But I feel that there are better solution than just take the xp loss for the time I invested to regain that loss. Perhaps not everyone has the RL resources to be able to enjoy this server.

I am actually all for limiting PC level to just 15 or 20. The progression in L1-20 is much more manageable and fun than the epic levels.
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Steve
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Re: Monthly 100% RCR

Unread post by Steve »

However, for those who have legitimate needs (fixing builds, feats, etc) for it
Did you ever try petitioning to the DMs/Admins for a rebuild based on these legitimate needs? If an advertised, incorrect function of the Server was made and a player ended up with something broken or not working as advertised, there is a precedence for one-time help. But the reason REALLY has to be legitimate, and not just a mistake (because those we need to be responsible for ourselves).

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realayer
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Re: Monthly 100% RCR

Unread post by realayer »

Steve wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:16 am Did you ever try petitioning to the DMs/Admins for a rebuild based on these legitimate needs? If an advertised, incorrect function of the Server was made and a player ended up with something broken or not working as advertised, there is a precedence for one-time help. But the reason REALLY has to be legitimate, and not just a mistake (because those we need to be responsible for ourselves).
I have no obligation to answer your questions. TBH I feel uncomfortable to continue our exchanges as your questions and statements imply that I am/was exploiting the system and irresponsible for my mistakes (if there is/was any) and feel pointless to continue as my concerns are being neglected. I will just stop it here.
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Steve
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Re: Monthly 100% RCR

Unread post by Steve »

I’m honestly sorry you feel that way, but I never assumed or accused you of exploiting mechanics or being irresponsible. We all make build mistakes, and it sucks! But where a choice was made in building though mislead by misinformation on official sources—this Forum or the wiki—there then IS legitimate reason to speak with the DMs/Admins.

It’s just not a guarantee. But at least it exists as an option, yes?

The alternative of having 100% RCR monthly or with any regularity simply posses more problems than solutions, as I think is evident in the many responses in this thread, and many made BY Staff.

This is why if you or anyone does feel they were legitimately mislead, there IS the avenue to petition your particular case. And that is a good thing!

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Valefort
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Re: Monthly 100% RCR

Unread post by Valefort »

If a mechanic doesn't work as described it needs to be mentioned, and bumped if no answer comes. Then you either wait for a fix or ask for a refund if the difference between reality and description is too big. If everything works as described but you want to change something then it's on you, changes are not fixes.

Another point here is using the RCR because you screwed up a build by picking the wrong feat last level, or in the last levels. Adding an NPC in the Nexus to dock exp from you (barring some class combinations and with some checks to limit frequency and shenaningans) is no problem and you won't have to wait for a DM.

@realayer Regarding "disrespecting player's time", in bold, I really do hope that was written hastily without much thinking.
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Ithilan
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Re: Monthly 100% RCR

Unread post by Ithilan »

There has been so much added to the server over the years.

I find cosmetics or tweak of skills just as viable a RCR reason as a misclick while leveling up. Every one that wants to RCR usually has a legitimate reason and that primary factor is: Am I having fun?

And the answer is often that you could have more fun, that tinkering with builds and tweaking your characters is fun. That adapting to the server, both RP you engage in and the life your character takes, and enjoying many of the amazing updates from the art team. Well RCR serves that function, since the hairdresser in game sucks and we need to make a bio edit and additional character to tweak that part of our customization.

Truth is most games these days have options to alter your gameplay or cosmetics with out having to start all over. This game is old and clunky and RCR is very much something that has saved BG from having a near non existent player base.

So would it be so bad to give people a few days time window to embrace some of all these new changes? To get a chance to try the new class, finally get a more fitting head for your character, or reflecting that you spend a month learning Jotun or delving in to spellcrafting, thus wanting to reflect it on your sheet?

For me its a win win, since it would mean people that other wise would be leaving or find less value in returning to the game and server I should say, would now perhaps have a rekindled interest. Either in tweaking their main, rolling a new alt or what not.

Sitting on a lot of characters myself and more to come. I can say theres only so much I can stomach of 1-2 attacks per round gameplay in the gibberling, goblin, orc & xvart areas. Most builds start being really unique just pre-epics and most builds look the same from 1-10.

#FreeRCRorRiot :twisted: :lol: :lol:
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Valefort
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Re: Monthly 100% RCR

Unread post by Valefort »

I'd argue that the fact that newer games allow you to completely change a character is bonkers and a bad idea in an RP environment where you want to maintain some believability. On the other hand I certainly do agree that tweaking is fun and sometimes even needed to reflect some RP, but between the 50% RCR and the possibility to remove some exp (through DMs for now but eventually though an NPC) I think things are quite covered.

Overall I can't help but think that people wanting a 100% RCR do not like the PvE environment much, if at all, and want to skip it... but then why do you need a level 30 character for ?
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Re: Monthly 100% RCR

Unread post by Blackbird »

Hoihe wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:27 am I feel easier RCR would exacerbate an already annoying issue I run into.

I find a character I haven't met before. I RP with them for a week or so and enjoy it.

Suddenly they don't show up at all anymore, and that player is now playing their 5th alt in a row.
Baldur's Gate is a major destination on the coast and part of an overland trading route. The number of adventurers that pass through it on a regular basis is probably pretty high; if I saw the same people all the time, it might be cause to worry that something has made the roads and shipping lanes dangerous. :?

We should also keep in mind that players are not captives of our desire to RP with them; they have their own motives and needs and if that means creating a new character, well, why not?
Valefort wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:39 pm Overall I can't help but think that people wanting a 100% RCR do not like the PvE environment much, if at all, and want to skip it... but then why do you need a level 30 character for ?
DM events, I would imagine. As lum noted, it's not a great feeling when you end up in an event with one of the multitude of level 30 or high-20s characters while considerably lower level and the DM is balancing the event around them. This is not a dig at the DMs, but just a fact of the server life given its age, the small team and the leveling system. I can see new players wanting to participate in large server plot events and being a bit put out by the fact that you can't reasonably do that without tripping over multiple level 20-30 players around which large portions of the event will likely be balanced.

I can't speak to PvE as I generally enjoy it so long as the locale changes reasonably often.
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Ithilan
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Re: Monthly 100% RCR

Unread post by Ithilan »

Valefort wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:39 pm I'd argue that the fact that newer games allow you to completely change a character is bonkers and a bad idea in an RP environment where you want to maintain some believability. On the other hand I certainly do agree that tweaking is fun and sometimes even needed to reflect some RP, but between the 50% RCR and the possibility to remove some exp (through DMs for now but eventually though an NPC) I think things are quite covered.

Overall I can't help but think that people wanting a 100% RCR do not like the PvE environment much, if at all, and want to skip it... but then why do you need a level 30 character for ?
I can see that point of view as well and yes in some cases, the customization's are dumb and immersion breaking. But people also do this as a hobby and past time, so immersing yourself to the point of living another person and every pimple on their buttocks is a part of your identity, can become a bit stale :P

Besides we are not bound by the same limitations as our own world necessarily, magic exists and forces that can alter your appearance for good or worse. I have yet to meet any one with a skeletal arm in real life, or bird like talon hands, fiery hair and what not. Lets treat it for what it is, fantasy.

If developing your character is as time consuming as this game is, having to repeat the cycle of it on multiple occasions due to something that should be insignificant is a hell of a toll. If I want to change the type of shield I use, I will lose over half my epic levels and key defining features of my character, no longer allowing me to pertain its current identity, but likely rolling back on gameplay as well. Having to acquire XP anew to obtain your normal and established ability level, and make excuses for your faded prowess and sudden inadequacies in so many aspects.

I think theres a bit too much entitlement involved in this kind of debate perhaps, where we are talking about rules or limitations on other players. But they are are blurred. The only case where I see actual penalty on the XP regained making sense, is when you make a completely new character. For tweaking an existing one, I dont care particularly. Even if it means Freddy the Fighter becomes William the Wizard over night, if the RP is there and supports or.. otherwise it wont matter too much. People luckily have a lot of integrity on BG and id think after an extended test period, you would find the same amount of RCRs as now per player, but more players.
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Snarfy
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Re: Monthly 100% RCR

Unread post by Snarfy »

Ithilan wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:51 pm I think theres a bit too much entitlement involved in this kind of debate...
This is the truest statement in this entire thread.
There are no level 30's, only level 20's with benefits...
realayer
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Re: Monthly 100% RCR

Unread post by realayer »

I will reiterate my points here if they were not clear in my previous posts.
1) It is fine to have loss xp for using RCR (as I have done that a couple of times already).
2) What is not fine is the slow progress of epic levels (to catch up with that xp loss), and this suggests that a yearly 100% RCR might have its place.

@Steve
Thank you for clarifying your stance. I know that contacting DMs is a viable option. But I am concern that contacting DMs for something that can be done mechanically will take away their time to cater to the larger server population.

@Valefort
I am sorry if my statement
"I feel that investing a long time in my character but resulting in such a little progression amounts to disrespecting players' time."
offended anyone. That is not my intention, and I just want to express my dissatifaction on the slow character progression.
If I do not enjoy playing on this server, I will just leave instead of investing time to comment and make suggestions to improve this server and player experience.
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DangerMouse2
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Re: Monthly 100% RCR

Unread post by DangerMouse2 »

I like the idea of the nexus NPC that can take away a specified number of experience. That would come in handy for new players like myself who make a lot of mistakes.
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Re: Monthly 100% RCR

Unread post by Thaelis »

realayer wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:53 pm "I feel that investing a long time in my character but resulting in such a little progression amounts to disrespecting players' time."
offended anyone. That is not my intention, and I just want to express my dissatifaction on the slow character progression.
If I do not enjoy playing on this server, I will just leave instead of investing time to comment and make suggestions to improve this server and player experience.
I think it depends on your play-style how fast you progress, but yeah RCR can be a bummer for us slow-levelers; after RCR you have to spend 6 months to get back to your previous level. I feel you! :violin:

The only problem with full RCR is it's pretty immersion-breaking in terms of a well known 30th level Fighter suddenly coming back as a 30th level Archmage the next day with zero RP.
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Ithilan
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Re: Monthly 100% RCR

Unread post by Ithilan »

Thaelis wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:20 pm I think it depends on your play-style how fast you progress, but yeah RCR can be a bummer for us slow-levelers; after RCR you have to spend 6 months to get back to your previous level. I feel you! :violin:

The only problem with full RCR is it's pretty immersion-breaking in terms of a well known 30th level Fighter suddenly coming back as a 30th level Archmage the next day with zero RP.
This touches on two things I find interesting, first and foremost the fact that the people that suffer the most from current state of RCR, are the real dedicated RPers that take slower to mitigate the RCR loss and they probably more likely to RCR for the sake of a few skill points or a new head, than a complete build overhaul.

Current state of XP gain may seem a bit slow to many people, but is been increased in so many ways that I find it usually just sneaks up on you these days. That being said, it is significantly slowly at the higher levels, which it should be. But to the point of perhaps very repetitive content because the variety of zones and enemies you can engage with is limited in scope really. But then that opens up a whole other topic of RP cliques, adventuring groups, level in party limitations and so on. Ill refrain from that.

But in regards to the full RCR issue of fighters becoming wizards, its always the horror scenario people bring up. But I havent seen it happen yet. I see some significant tweaks to characters at times id question as well, but at the core of it most people can differentiate between adjusting an existing character and concept, or going full reset button. And I think if some one did do the whole switch over, it would have some backlash IC or OOC, perhaps both.
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Re: Monthly 100% RCR

Unread post by Tanlaus »

Ithilan wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:41 am
Thaelis wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:20 pm I think it depends on your play-style how fast you progress, but yeah RCR can be a bummer for us slow-levelers; after RCR you have to spend 6 months to get back to your previous level. I feel you! :violin:

The only problem with full RCR is it's pretty immersion-breaking in terms of a well known 30th level Fighter suddenly coming back as a 30th level Archmage the next day with zero RP.
This touches on two things I find interesting, first and foremost the fact that the people that suffer the most from current state of RCR, are the real dedicated RPers that take slower to mitigate the RCR loss and they probably more likely to RCR for the sake of a few skill points or a new head, than a complete build overhaul.

Current state of XP gain may seem a bit slow to many people, but is been increased in so many ways that I find it usually just sneaks up on you these days. That being said, it is significantly slowly at the higher levels, which it should be. But to the point of perhaps very repetitive content because the variety of zones and enemies you can engage with is limited in scope really. But then that opens up a whole other topic of RP cliques, adventuring groups, level in party limitations and so on. Ill refrain from that.

But in regards to the full RCR issue of fighters becoming wizards, its always the horror scenario people bring up. But I havent seen it happen yet. I see some significant tweaks to characters at times id question as well, but at the core of it most people can differentiate between adjusting an existing character and concept, or going full reset button. And I think if some one did do the whole switch over, it would have some backlash IC or OOC, perhaps both.
I’m ambivalent about the idea of some periodic 100% RCR, though monthly seems a little crazy. It wouldn’t bother me if we had it, doesn’t bother me that we don’t.

I do 100% agree with your last point though. There is this kind of straw man argument of Thundar the Barbarian suddenly becoming Thundar the wizard, and while I’m not saying it couldn’t or has never happened, every epic level RCR I’ve witnessed so far has been more about tweaking a build that completely throwing it out.

Maybe I’m wrong but I think most people clamoring for a full RCR see end game issues with their builds, either in terms of the 3.5 rule set or server specific implementation, that they’d like to change.

I think the majority of the player base are more attached to the character concepts they’ve created than not. And completely throwing them out is far less prevalent than fixing them.
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