Bear Warrior Changes

[MadSeer]

Yeah I spoke with Chad about this on the Discord. I didn't know they were "officially" considered overtuned. I'll live with Barbarian being a better investment than going for Bear Warrior, but that doesn't change that the class itself suffers from how damage and equipment bonus are transferred and compare poorly to other tank builds. No items + no save bonus+ no damage type makes them inherently weaker than other tank options. The rogue was brought up as a counter argument for poor saves, but stealth builds go for HiPS and can interrupt spellcasting.

Damage doesn't hold vs DR, saves don't hold vs spells or traps, fast healing matches any melee build with a vampiric weapon, they're harder to hit with touch attacks but total AC is in line with other characters that build for it. Saves and lack of items are remedied by partying with a cleric or wizard, but you're still stuck with useless attacks against DR/type unlike every other class.

[Valefort]

Against which monsters is your bear warrior struggling ?

[MadSeer]

Every mob that requires cold iron, alchemical silver or bludgeoning damage and casters using DC spell. I have a screenshot of Vik during the devil war event:



Jokes aside, just having the bonus from items like Mace of Disruption or Maul of Titans (I think that's the name?) transfer to Bear Form would be, I think, enough to remedy to that. Some of those items are two handed, meaning a BW would sacrifice their shield AC for that extra damage against the more resistant mobs which seems like a fair trade.

Alternatively, if everything stayed as is I could see the PrC really leaning in on the control side of things by adding something like the Shield Charge to the BW charge and maybe the Northlander Hewing slam attack. Their saves and damage remain subpar but they're better at being a giant bear causing mayhem, because what's the point of being a giant bear if not mayhem.

[Valefort]

Ok that looks completely fine to me then, DM events are off limits.

[MadSeer]

It'll take a while, but if you want an actual list of every spawn with some form of DR that can be bypassed in some way that Bear Warriors don't have access to, I'll see what I can do.

[Valefort]

By all means go ahead, the DR on monsters is pretty minimal so the conclusion is pretty clear

[zhazz]

A few quick question about the armor for Bear Warrior.

According to the wiki the following stats apply at class level 10:

• +7 Natural
• 30 Base Armor

Additionally the following transfers:

• Armor Enhance at full value
• Deflection Enhance at full value
• Shield Enhance at half value
• Natural Enhance at full value, but only if higher than the Bear bonus

If my math is correct that puts the total possible AC at:
30 + 4 + 4 + 2 + 7 + Dex = 47 + Dex

Is that correct? Or does the base 30 include the 7 Natural?

Would Improved Mage Armor grant another +2 if cast before raging, or is it only items that count?

Similarly to IMA does half of the Enhance AC from a Shield spell transfer?

There is no mention of Dodge AC from Tumble, feats, class features, or items. Do these transfer?

[MadSeer]

Imp. Mage Armor will provide the additional +2;

Shield spell transfers +4 deflection, it won't stack with existing deflection from helm, ring or cloak, but the Potion of Shield in Sorcerous Sundries grants +4 Shield AC, unlike the Shield Spell, and that will fully transfer to Bear Form. Shield AC is only cut in half if it comes from your equipped Shield, it's unaffected if it comes from another source;

Dodge transfers from boots and Tumble.

To give you an idea, Vik's AC in Bear Form can go to 52 on his own:
30 (base) + 7 (natural) + 5 (dex) + 4 (armor) + 4 (cloak deflection) + 3 (boots) +2 (Shield AC, 4/2) +1 (tumble 10).

This goes to 54 with a Potion of Shield, which transfers a full +4 Shield AC since it's a potion and not a piece of equipment, and 56 with Improved Mage Armor which adds an extra +2 to his +4 Armor bonus. It'll go up to 58 with Tumble 30, 59 with +4 boots, 60 if a druid casts a Tortoise Shell on him.

[MadSeer]

Gonna keep stuff on BW in one thread:

Normally, when you rage (including Bear Form in tabletop), your current hit points change to match the new CON score. So a level 10 barbarian with 100/140 HP that uses Rage changes to 120/160 HP. This is how it should work for Bear Warriors as well:

"Unlike with the polymorph spell [...] nor does he regain any hit points when he transforms. However, his current hit points increase due to his new Constitution, as normal for a rage ability."

I think a fix was implemented to general Polymorph abilities to prevent boosting HP via exploits. This fix is % based and it becomes a significant problem if you Rage at lower health:

If Vik was to Rage with 10 HP, that should bump his new current hit points to 86 (76hp = level * con bonus = 19 *4) and that works fine with Standard Rage. In Bear Form, the HP fix script kicks in, meaning if he rages at 10 HP (2.8% of his total HP), his new current HP will be 11 or 12 (2.8% of 422) instead of 86. Using Bear Form at low health can often kill your character, because the Fast Healing leaves little spare room for damage.

With 27 round of rage and his BW Fast Healing, he'd end his rage at 120HP, which goes back down by 76 points at the end of the transformation, at 44. In this scenario, two to three hits from a mob is a guaranteed fugue (54 damage would bring him to -10 at the end of the Rage).

Normally, his current HP would end up at 86, regen 108 HP over 27 rounds, end up at 194 by the end of his Rage and transform back with 118 HP.

Is there any chance the HP adjust script can be changed to fix that?