Request Player Feedback/Discussion: Deleveling on Death

[Tanlaus]

I could see doing something like an hour per death debuff for 30s. Like maybe the same as losing a level via the spell. Only make it not restorable. Just have to let it time out. That way it gives some consequence to level 30s who right now have none.

Outside of that I wouldn't tamper with it too much. XP loss is already a pretty big hit once you get to mid teens, and especially epics where it comes much more slowly. Not to mention my last four or five deaths have been due to lag or crash. I'm quite sure if it happens to me it happens to everyone else.

[OMEGA]

The OP points out how death is meaningless to 30s. How that makes for a radically different RP against all other levels. How is that a good idea? 30s can delevel to 29 when killed by monsters. Leave rest of dying mechanic as is.

[gedweyignasia]

I think a lot of people voting in the poll might have misinterpreted the suggestion because I phrased it poorly, but the response is lackluster enough that it's not even worth discussing with other devs. Some of the other thoughts here about a temporary penalty might be worth exploring, though.

[Shadowspinner70]

I'm asking how you would feel if the usual 100 XP/Level penalty for dying would be able to de-level players instead of stopping at level boundaries. I'm not suggesting we take a full level away or increase the penalty.

This is the crux of the change. I'm cool with this. It's not a radical change at all, just if you lose XP and it hits the level before, it's a delevel. It makes sense! The one thing I'm worried about, which several people have expressed, is how often characters die due to crash.

A temporary penalty makes sense as well. Die, temporary -2 to each stat. Anything more, do not do it. Think of what -4 or -6 does to a character with 8 STR, 8 WIS, 6 CHA. By D&D rules, you hit 0 in any stat, you die. You wait . . . let it wear off. Or you go off and die again. Can make it stackable until that person decides to wait or casts some form of Restoration. It'd be a way to make divine/natural casters like clerics and druids extremely valuable for less patient folk.

[Asmodea]

My main thought is that this stands as a solution looking for a problem. I don't think it would make anyone RP more seriously about death, which is what I think is the problem trying to be solved?

[Thaelis]

Resurrected by 7th circle spell: Lose 1% of your XP
Resurrected by 5th circle spell: Lose 2% of your XP
Resurrected in a temple: Lose 2% XP, items equipped and 10% gold
Resurrect by oneself: Lose 4% XP, items equipped and 10% gold

Whoa those are some hefty penalties!

What about this tiered system but with debuff instead of xp loss, for 12 or 24 hours (someone suggested 1 hour but that is really too trivial). Is it really so bad to be forced to RP for one day?!

The debuff doesn't have to be stat loss. Could be -1 saves/skills/attack/damage, with tiers based on what level spell resurrected you.

The difference shouldn't be too big though. Getting a Tell from a stranger asking me to please come and res them is the last thing I want more of.

[gedweyignasia]

My main thought is that this stands as a solution looking for a problem. I don't think it would make anyone RP more seriously about death, which is what I think is the problem trying to be solved?

It's a very minor change to address a very minor problem, which is players addressing their PC's mortality with a slightly more cavalier attitude when they've just leveled up (or when they've reached level 30). Some very good ideas were proposed for addressing the lightness of death in general (and issues with RP immersion by not specifying it's a knock-out), but they deserve their own thread to flesh it out and get feedback.

[Blackman D]

i would like to point out how a bit irrelevant the suggestion is if the point is to make dying at 30 matter...

lets not forget that in order to die and lose a level you have to be within the bottom range of your current level to drop enough xp to delevel... so if you lose 1500xp but are 9000xp over your current level nothing happens... just the same if you lose 3000xp and are not within 3000xp of the bottom point of 30, nothing happens

if you dont understand what i mean, the xp required for 30 is not a end all, the max xp cap supports the original Svirfneblin ECL of +3, or level 33, which they dont even have anymore and are only +2 meaning anyone who has been 30 for a while will actually have enough xp to be 1-3 levels over 30, so you would have to die quite a lot for it to even matter...

not to mention all it would actually do it enable deleveling exploits to be done at will, so its likely a hard no

[gedweyignasia]

We'd have to fix de-leveling exploits for this. It's possible to modify the XP hook so that Level 30's can never have more than 50,000 XP above Lv30, which would mean two deaths in quick succession could de-level them, but that would be a secondary measure if it turns out they all still sat comfortably near the XP limit instead of gravitating downwards.

This would not be implemented unless de-leveling exploits were fixed.

[Oarthias]

I honestly think we aren't approaching the problem from the right side. The reason why dying doesn't feel realistic is because we are trying to apply PNP logic to game mechanics handled automatically. In PNP and therefore dnd setting players aren't supposed to die this often, because there's no lag and the encounters are adapted by a human DM. Here this doesn't happen, so my suggestion is to consider the mechanical death as KO and add as suggested a long lasting penalty to the stats that can only be removed with greater restoration, as barely escaping with one's life is no joke.
When death happens in RP (for example death enforced by DM or by another player in PvP) I would agree to apply all the due costs and limitations of PNP (diamonds, exp loss, true resurrection needed if there's no body).

So much this. I have died so many times due to lag and crashing as of late. I have died because asshats have run into me with a trail of the monsters they dragged behind them.. and they don’t always stop to raise you.I made a low level just to goof off with when things were slow and I frankly don’t want to have the consequences of mechanics and or other players I wasn’t traveling with force consequences on me.

I am one of the many that have renamed their raise dead scrolls- smelling salts. RPing deaths as a KO... because it would be ridiculous to me otherwise. My druid would never raise anyone as death is part of the natural cycle of how things work. Vani frankly wouldn’t raise some folks.. but if KO she wouldn’t leave them behind to suffer a miserable fate.

This game isn’t table top... we’d have daily changes to the mod where our characters actions all had lasting effects on the dungeons as well as other things on this server if it was.

Like many have stated, I’d be alright with a temp hit to the characters stats. Most of the time I RP the being knocked out, taking a moment to breath and shake the stars from their head.. or the adrenaline that keeps them going till the danger is over before they plop down later in a puddle of exhaustion.

Just like the many different styles people rp dealing with cursed items differently... leave it to the player to decide. Could some just cheese it out by just using the scrolls themselves to remove a penalty, certainly. Odds are though that many will RP needing aid, because they find that enjoyable.. and isn’t that what this server is about? Everyone finding a way to enjoy themselves here?

There are other things I would put into place long before this one.

I’ve had next to no sleep and typing long posts on my phone is always annoying .. so I hope the above made sense and isn’t filled with too many spelling mistakes.

[Rhifox]

Changing it from death to knockout/heavily wounded would work so much better. Leave death for actual DM events/player decisions/etc.

[Hoihe]

Resurrected by 7th circle spell: Lose 1% of your XP
Resurrected by 5th circle spell: Lose 2% of your XP
Resurrected in a temple: Lose 2% XP, items equipped and 10% gold
Resurrect by oneself: Lose 4% XP, items equipped and 10% gold

Whoa those are some hefty penalties!

It's a heavy RP server where time passes quickly and where every interaction with the world can change it permanently. For example, a warlock got captured and was going to be permakilled so he blowed himself up and destroyed a city as big as Soubar.

Grinding and looting is heavily penalised there. You can do it but it won't be seen well and there are risks you will have to deal with. A lvl 15 character character that dies could lose up to 4.800 XP. A lvl 30 drow could lose around 20k XP if he dies and is not resurrected. But you get used to those penalties and when permadeath and scenes can happen at every moment you usually go in groups that benefit the RP. Also the biggest achievements in power are granted by RP with scenes to enchant weapons, find rare gems for power, titles, etc.

Please do not even think of suggesting permadeath.

[zhazz]

I'll start off by saying that anything is better than what we currently have. Not because of the mechanics of it, but because of how it is treated ICly.

That being said, I do firmly believe the entire death system and mechanic is in need of a serious overhaul. That's a discussion for another topic, however, which I will start separately.

To reiterate: Yes to deleveling from loss of XP.

[blowuup]

If people want more serious consequences for death, they already have the option to pick up the Mark of Death from level 1.
If there isn't enough lee-way with that system, add a "Mark of Death" lite where the RCR bot is available.

I would remove the XP penalty completely if it was up to me, and give revived characters Negative levels instead.
And of course, priests at Altars could be paid to remove it.

[selhan]

LOL- Im still waiting for the damn caravan bug to get fix and we talking of losing levels for dying? lol

*raises hand and gives a gesture of a calm down manner* Lets focus on things that do need fixing hmm? Instead of things that dont need fixing.