Loot Changes

[Tanlaus]

Can we at least get a list with Areas and their levels so I know where I can actually get "level appropriate" loot at level 30? I'm pretty much getting trash everywhere.

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Areas_by_CR

[Domovoi]

Can we at least get a list with Areas and their levels so I know where I can actually get "level appropriate" loot at level 30? I'm pretty much getting trash everywhere.

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Areas_by_CR

Thanks a bunch!

[PaulImposteur]

(I posted here due to suggestions thread being down)

Been gone awhile, 2 of my friends and I left shortly after the loot changes. I spent a month trying to see if this system was beneficial, with a lot of spare time to play.

It was very frustrating to see these changes that aren't favorable towards more casual, and smaller groups of people. Just before these changes we were having a great time, loot was flowing and I felt rewarded diving into dungeons.

I've been around on the server for awhile and there always feels to be this ebb and flow of opinion where some of the veterans want to tone down the enjoy ability of newer players since they already achieved it.

This was a BIG argument many years ago about easing the leveling on the server which used to be extremely frustrating. Fortunately despite outcries against making acquiring XP easier, it was eventually changed and the game finally became a much much more enjoyable experience for new players and even the existing players that rebelled against this idea.

Loot was sparse then too, I remember a HUGE number of rags from chests playing in Epic levels. When people called to make it easier to acquire loot so they could catch up with the established populace, again the Vets that had quite a lot were very much against this. This is a common trend with people, they worked hard and feel it's unjust to make the system easier for new comers. But, eventually loot was tuned, and we all were able to get nice goodies, then Epic merchants came! We all began to build toons we were never capable of.

Before this loot rebalance, the server was the funnest I ever found it. I finally was able to run out for 30 minutes to an hour, make some good cash and slowly invest into an Epic item for a new character. I was role-playing and for once in my years of playing, actually engaging with Guilds, because heck, I made my gold and my character was leveling and gearing out with a casual pace.

Before the rebalance I was running toons that were working on found items, not transfering any gold or items, because it was exciting. Without any intervention from whatever wealth I already had, I was able to loot and quickly turn a toon into a character that was well geared. That experience would be that of a new player.

When this rebalance came out, it was the stake that caused me and my 2 pals quit. It disappoints me, that this server is making a backwards move, appealing to accounts that already have what they need. This system isn't enjoyable if you play casually or don't sit on a mountain of goodies already. My account already has a good amount of items, and some gold. If I started fresh, with nothing under this system, I'd be dead in the water.

The mentality this 'rebalance' brings is one I've always been strongly against on this server. Back when people wanted easier experience accrued and the Veterans argued against it, I was on the forum saying my piece on why we needed more accessibility to those who can play less and were more casual.

When we only received rags, and that was up for debate on giving the player base some more items. The old wealthy accounts argued tooth and nail against that too, while all they did was trade with each other in a little clique. I was on the forum again, putting my voice out there on how it was once again unfair to offer up such a small experience to newer and less Hardcore players.

I thought these days were behind this server. It feels like we're marching back to the days of Haves and Have-nots. Hopefully this rebalance is looked at more closely and changed, so I have a reason to return. But after years of seeing stubbornness to try and make it more and more difficult for people to enter our little community, it's becoming too tiresome. Which is a shame, this is my favorite community I've ever been a part of. I just wish we weren't so resistant to making things a little more fun and easier for everyone.

I'm passionate about this server, and wish it the best. I hope to see you everyone server side soon.

Have Fun, Be Kind,
-Paul

[yyj]

(I posted here due to suggestions thread being down)

Been gone awhile, 2 of my friends and I left shortly after the loot changes. I spent a month trying to see if this system was beneficial, with a lot of spare time to play.

It was very frustrating to see these changes that aren't favorable towards more casual, and smaller groups of people. Just before these changes we were having a great time, loot was flowing and I felt rewarded diving into dungeons.

I've been around on the server for awhile and there always feels to be this ebb and flow of opinion where some of the veterans want to tone down the enjoy ability of newer players since they already achieved it.

This was a BIG argument many years ago about easing the leveling on the server which used to be extremely frustrating. Fortunately despite outcries against making acquiring XP easier, it was eventually changed and the game finally became a much much more enjoyable experience for new players and even the existing players that rebelled against this idea.

Loot was sparse then too, I remember a HUGE number of rags from chests playing in Epic levels. When people called to make it easier to acquire loot so they could catch up with the established populace, again the Vets that had quite a lot were very much against this. This is a common trend with people, they worked hard and feel it's unjust to make the system easier for new comers. But, eventually loot was tuned, and we all were able to get nice goodies, then Epic merchants came! We all began to build toons we were never capable of.

Before this loot rebalance, the server was the funnest I ever found it. I finally was able to run out for 30 minutes to an hour, make some good cash and slowly invest into an Epic item for a new character. I was role-playing and for once in my years of playing, actually engaging with Guilds, because heck, I made my gold and my character was leveling and gearing out with a casual pace.

Before the rebalance I was running toons that were working on found items, not transfering any gold or items, because it was exciting. Without any intervention from whatever wealth I already had, I was able to loot and quickly turn a toon into a character that was well geared. That experience would be that of a new player.

When this rebalance came out, it was the stake that caused me and my 2 pals quit. It disappoints me, that this server is making a backwards move, appealing to accounts that already have what they need. This system isn't enjoyable if you play casually or don't sit on a mountain of goodies already. My account already has a good amount of items, and some gold. If I started fresh, with nothing under this system, I'd be dead in the water.

The mentality this 'rebalance' brings is one I've always been strongly against on this server. Back when people wanted easier experience accrued and the Veterans argued against it, I was on the forum saying my piece on why we needed more accessibility to those who can play less and were more casual.

When we only received rags, and that was up for debate on giving the player base some more items. The old wealthy accounts argued tooth and nail against that too, while all they did was trade with each other in a little clique. I was on the forum again, putting my voice out there on how it was once again unfair to offer up such a small experience to newer and less Hardcore players.

I thought these days were behind this server. It feels like we're marching back to the days of Haves and Have-nots. Hopefully this rebalance is looked at more closely and changed, so I have a reason to return. But after years of seeing stubbornness to try and make it more and more difficult for people to enter our little community, it's becoming too tiresome. Which is a shame, this is my favorite community I've ever been a part of. I just wish we weren't so resistant to making things a little more fun and easier for everyone.

I'm passionate about this server, and wish it the best. I hope to see you everyone server side soon.

Have Fun, Be Kind,
-Paul

After trying out the new changes and being someone who was opposed to them from the beginning, here's my two zhents on this and some tips:

1. The loot is now more balanced towards an adventuring playstyle, of course people who OOC know the locations of areas and chests and routes will be the most benefitted. Loot at lower levels is pretty good, you can make a lot of gold selling 1400 things, I leveled a character from 1 to 17 and she easily made around 200k, without going out of my way to loot, just getting stuff naturally.

2. At level 30 is when things get interesting, now you have to go loot epic places only and the thing is that now, you can get very very lucky more often than before, playing at least two or three times a week just to loot on epic levels will yield results in 2-3 months. Trust me, I have tested this new loot balance a lot and I also see what other players loot. The loot is way better and the best part is that the economy has not suffered negatively at all. (People still trading items and nothing has been devalued) because the community is not that big and doesn't loot that much to really flood the market with gold and epic items.

Veterans will ALWAYS have the advantage, it has always been like that but it was worse before because with the old looting system, you had like 1 in 1,000,000 chances of finding something cool, now the chances are of finding a good item are higher. And it's not only mechanically "good items" , I have seen a lot of fun items that aren't necessarily epic but still are pretty flavorful and way better than what the RIG makes.

I am very sad to hear that your friends quit the server, because I am pretty sure that if you give it a chance and take the time maybe one or two months, play just to have fun and adventure, you will be rewarded.

[Hoihe]

(I posted here due to suggestions thread being down)

Been gone awhile, 2 of my friends and I left shortly after the loot changes. I spent a month trying to see if this system was beneficial, with a lot of spare time to play.

It was very frustrating to see these changes that aren't favorable towards more casual, and smaller groups of people. Just before these changes we were having a great time, loot was flowing and I felt rewarded diving into dungeons.

I've been around on the server for awhile and there always feels to be this ebb and flow of opinion where some of the veterans want to tone down the enjoy ability of newer players since they already achieved it.

This was a BIG argument many years ago about easing the leveling on the server which used to be extremely frustrating. Fortunately despite outcries against making acquiring XP easier, it was eventually changed and the game finally became a much much more enjoyable experience for new players and even the existing players that rebelled against this idea.

Loot was sparse then too, I remember a HUGE number of rags from chests playing in Epic levels. When people called to make it easier to acquire loot so they could catch up with the established populace, again the Vets that had quite a lot were very much against this. This is a common trend with people, they worked hard and feel it's unjust to make the system easier for new comers. But, eventually loot was tuned, and we all were able to get nice goodies, then Epic merchants came! We all began to build toons we were never capable of.

Before this loot rebalance, the server was the funnest I ever found it. I finally was able to run out for 30 minutes to an hour, make some good cash and slowly invest into an Epic item for a new character. I was role-playing and for once in my years of playing, actually engaging with Guilds, because heck, I made my gold and my character was leveling and gearing out with a casual pace.

Before the rebalance I was running toons that were working on found items, not transfering any gold or items, because it was exciting. Without any intervention from whatever wealth I already had, I was able to loot and quickly turn a toon into a character that was well geared. That experience would be that of a new player.

When this rebalance came out, it was the stake that caused me and my 2 pals quit. It disappoints me, that this server is making a backwards move, appealing to accounts that already have what they need. This system isn't enjoyable if you play casually or don't sit on a mountain of goodies already. My account already has a good amount of items, and some gold. If I started fresh, with nothing under this system, I'd be dead in the water.

The mentality this 'rebalance' brings is one I've always been strongly against on this server. Back when people wanted easier experience accrued and the Veterans argued against it, I was on the forum saying my piece on why we needed more accessibility to those who can play less and were more casual.

When we only received rags, and that was up for debate on giving the player base some more items. The old wealthy accounts argued tooth and nail against that too, while all they did was trade with each other in a little clique. I was on the forum again, putting my voice out there on how it was once again unfair to offer up such a small experience to newer and less Hardcore players.

I thought these days were behind this server. It feels like we're marching back to the days of Haves and Have-nots. Hopefully this rebalance is looked at more closely and changed, so I have a reason to return. But after years of seeing stubbornness to try and make it more and more difficult for people to enter our little community, it's becoming too tiresome. Which is a shame, this is my favorite community I've ever been a part of. I just wish we weren't so resistant to making things a little more fun and easier for everyone.

I'm passionate about this server, and wish it the best. I hope to see you everyone server side soon.

Have Fun, Be Kind,
-Paul

After trying out the new changes and being someone who was opposed to them from the beginning, here's my two zhents on this and some tips:

1. The loot is now more balanced towards an adventuring playstyle, of course people who OOC know the locations of areas and chests and routes will be the most benefitted. Loot at lower levels is pretty good, you can make a lot of gold selling 1400 things, I leveled a character from 1 to 17 and she easily made around 200k, without going out of my way to loot, just getting stuff naturally.

2. At level 30 is when things get interesting, now you have to go loot epic places only and the thing is that now, you can get very very lucky more often than before, playing at least two or three times a week just to loot on epic levels will yield results in 2-3 months. Trust me, I have tested this new loot balance a lot and I also see what other players loot. The loot is way better and the best part is that the economy has not suffered negatively at all. (People still trading items and nothing has been devalued) because the community is not that big and doesn't loot that much to really flood the market with gold and epic items.

Veterans will ALWAYS have the advantage, it has always been like that but it was worse before because with the old looting system, you had like 1 in 1,000,000 chances of finding something cool, now the chances are of finding a good item are higher. And it's not only mechanically "good items" , I have seen a lot of fun items that aren't necessarily epic but still are pretty flavorful and way better than what the RIG makes.

I am very sad to hear that your friends quit the server, because I am pretty sure that if you give it a chance and take the time maybe one or two months, play just to have fun and adventure, you will be rewarded.

To this, I raise today's experience of looting frost giant fortress. Which gave me only 4 chests to loot:

https://imgur.com/a/CtDFwW4

[yyj]

I would like to point out, that I mentioned patience.
I am talking about consistently looting for around 1 or 2 months...At least, and maybe it takes more time, because again, epic items aren't meant to be found all the time. The Frost Giant King already drops 5k gold, which is a lot.

I opposed the loot changes before because l was scared, but then after trying it out and not giving up, you see results. Just give it a chance. You showing us only 1 run means nothing. At least try out 10 runs.

[Hoihe]

I would like to point out, that I mentioned patience.
I am talking about consistently looting for around 1 or 2 months...At least, and maybe it takes more time, because again, epic items aren't meant to be found all the time. The Frost Giant King already drops 5k gold, which is a lot.

I opposed the loot changes before because l was scared, but then after trying it out and not giving up, you see results. Just give it a chance. You showing us only 1 run means nothing. At least try out 10 runs.

Thing is, even 1 run can cost a lot in consumables. 1-4k gold if unlucky with mages/traps.

Running multiple times is easy if it's a low-risk dungeon, as well - you won't be spending thousands to heal up from traps or counter spells through mantles.

But, if one's limited to epic dungeons? Each run will be a net loss unless you get lucky. If I repeat today's run 10 times, with the same mage encounters? That's 10K gold in losses, and a few hundred in gains. For 10 days of grinding.

As for "Partying would fix": 13 players were online, and judging form scry - were too low level to be helpful/already elsewhere.

[yyj]

Then I would recommend you to try a lower CR area, at level 30 you can still get loot in plenty of areas, you may get lucky in the Reaching Woods.

[Steve]

Casual loot grinding will not give anything but casual rewards. It is the same as it ever was: dedicated looting hours upon hours every week will reward one well, but is argue the minority of the player base does not have this RL time.

So, it is really only an expectation problem. If you don’t expect anything better from the Rebalance, it won’t be much different than before it, EXCEPT that PCs will now have to loot grind Areas more appropriate to their CL(CR), and that means the Risk is higher, the investment is higher, AND the actual RL time to “clear an area” is longer...which is again why casual play will never be as rewarding.

And nor should it be, actually. Investment, one way or another, should matter, right??

[Young Werther]

You can make a pretty casual coin grinder by slapping that +4(+) gear on a lower leveled toon and hitting the lower level dungeons. Not quite as easy as it was before but it's the same feeling of invincibility.

[Planehopper]

It isn't time or investment for me, but variety.

Build a mechanics-focused character (because end level areas require it), one that hates giants and yuan-ti (because that's what you're gonna be killing), and get ready to do the same thing over and over.

It isn't that the looting changes are "bad", its that the consequences of those changes are limiting. In my opinion.

[Blame The Rogue]

Casual loot grinding will not give anything but casual rewards. It is the same as it ever was: dedicated looting hours upon hours every week will reward one well, but is argue the minority of the player base does not have this RL time.

So, it is really only an expectation problem. If you don’t expect anything better from the Rebalance, it won’t be much different than before it, EXCEPT that PCs will now have to loot grind Areas more appropriate to their CL(CR), and that means the Risk is higher, the investment is higher, AND the actual RL time to “clear an area” is longer...which is again why casual play will never be as rewarding.

And nor should it be, actually. Investment, one way or another, should matter, right??

yet there is this >>>

To this, I raise today's experience of looting frost giant fortress. Which gave me only 4 chests to loot:

https://imgur.com/a/CtDFwW4

currently the risk, and cost, are higher than the rewards

[matelener]

First, let me paste my suggestion from the other thread:

Couple of ideas for loot enhancement:

- Add all epic blueprints to the loot system
- Greatly improve chances of higher tier items - some items simply never drop even for people playing for years.
- Introduce new resource: "luck". It's capped at some number, replenishes with time (and/or RP xp) and enhances loot rolls even more. Opening chests lowers character's "luck". A character with no "luck" can of course still loot but without the bonus.

And nerf mimics or at least soften their CR scaling for lower levels.

And then, an update:

I did some loot runes in the past week, each about 12-15 epic chests, and here I some of my conclusions:

- I found couple of loot tables items that I've never seen. That's good! (even though, they aren't that useful but I love the variety)

- I found couple of epic items that are sold in the epic shops (each for over 200 000). On one hand, it's a shame they are not "unpurchasable" but on the other, they are still very powerful/useful (amulets with +4 AC and bonuses, epic falchion).

- Even when I didn't find any decent items, selling all the "trash" (anything with plain +EB for example) yielded more than 5000 per run on average.

[Thaelis]

I think we need some perspective...

I've been here for 2-3 years. Never found a single Epic item in a dungeon but somehow still having fun.

The only Epic item I ever found was in Blunt's that someone had clearly sold by mistake since it was more powerful than everything in Epic store, and I gave that away to someone who could use it. Because...what's so great about Epic loot anyway?!

No matter how many +++++++ you stick on your toon the DM will just summon ^9999999 Balors to murder you.

If you want to get powerful, build a guild or try to crawl your way up the political ladder. Heck why not try to kill the Dukes and replace them with Dopplegangers. Seems like a solid plan to me

[Hawke]

Actually there might be something with the tables.

I ran the kobold ruins, 1st and 2nd floor and the well yesterday and got several items, some gold (500+ at times) and came up with about a 10k gold haul with just chests...

Today I am running it, I have only received between 35-60 gold each chest. Nothing else.

Maybe with the resets it gets weird sometimes?