Should we lessen restrictions on the Underdark? [Poll]

[DM SummerBreeze]

Will underdark characters be able to loot chests as well on the surface?

Probably not, no. That won't likely change. It's just to open up a piece of the north to allow for RP mostly without having to feel like you're breaking the server rules for doing it as an UD player.

Some Dev's have suggested expanding the upperdark though to allow for more cross (surface/ud.) play in this way though. So there are many ideas/alternatives floating around. But overall we do not want the surface to suddenly become flush with drow and break immersion/setting. I think just letting people interact is a big step forward.

[mrm3ntalist]

I will play both surface and underdark characters. As long as everyone understands that this will create in-game conflict and in extend more PvP then I am fine with it. On top of that, in case restrictions are lowered, underdark characters should be allowed to loot chests on the surface and vice versa.

[izzul]

Will underdark characters be able to loot chests as well on the surface?

Probably not, no. That won't likely change. It's just to open up a piece of the north to allow for RP mostly without having to feel like you're breaking the server rules for doing it as an UD player.

Some Dev's have suggested expanding the upperdark though to allow for more cross (surface/ud.) play in this way though. So there are many ideas/alternatives floating around. But overall we do not want the surface to suddenly become flush with drow and break immersion/setting. I think just letting people interact is a big step forward.

Expanding Upperdark is perfect idea. as long as its 'interior' and not out in the open trade route.

[Snarfy]

I'd love to develop a 'way around', personally. I think BG needs more of those. Ways to move around sneakily around places. FAI has the back path, for example, but a lot of other places force you to stick to the main road.

Yep, Boarskyr is bad that way, and literally the only way you can get to all kinds of northern maps. I suspect more than a few players would like to have the option to avoid any potential bad-guy + drow campfire kumbayas

I don't know how much the exits from the UD to the surface other than the ogre caves are used, maybe one of those could be re-routed?

[Rhifox]

I'd love to develop a 'way around', personally. I think BG needs more of those. Ways to move around sneakily around places. FAI has the back path, for example, but a lot of other places force you to stick to the main road.

Yep, Boarskyr is bad that way, and literally the only way you can get to all kinds of northern maps. I suspect more than a few players would like to have the option to avoid any potential bad-guy + drow campfire kumbayas

I don't know how much the exits from the UD to the surface other than the ogre caves are used, maybe one of those could be re-routed?

Honestly, there should probably be a map in-between Trollclaws, Boareskyr, and Thundar anyway. I don't like area borders where you just have two transitions sitting right next to each other. Could have an 'along the river' map, where players can take a boat or cross over to the other side and around to bypass the Boareskyr map if they choose.

[matelener]

The concern I have is that drows ICly are treated as a deadly threat, and, because of that, it's hard to imagine a peaceful resolution of a group of drows meeting a group of goodly adventurers visiting an area in the north.

IC conflict is great but not so much if it turns into a PvP-fest. I don't know if it's going to happen, maybe it happens and becomes enjoyable all-around? Who knows, but let's not rule out the possibilities of people OOC-ly avoiding areas or players and, at worst, PvP dramas leading to players quitting.

[matelener]

P.S. Logging into alt-accounts to skew poll results is a scumbag move.

[mastajabba]

This Thread Is Treason!!

Jokes aside, unless there is a plan to restructure areas as to expand the UD. And move Low lvl areas to sever2 and some epics to lvl 1 I don’t think it’s going to spark a UD renaissance.

Drow players already come to those areas. Usually when they can make it to the surface they are maxed out so it’s when you get players like bait PVP from non epic chars staying in character, that’s a problem.

I think the consensus is that there is not enough areas to foster easy RP in the UD. Unless you have a pre organized group.

[athornforyourheart]

P.S. Logging into alt-accounts to skew poll results is a scumbag move.

+1

You said exactly what I was thinking.

[mrm3ntalist]

P.S. Logging into alt-accounts to skew poll results is a scumbag move.

Give names!

[Rhifox]

P.S. Logging into alt-accounts to skew poll results is a scumbag move.

Give names!

Mods do not see who has voted on which choice. Accounts sharing an IP happening to be logged on to the forum at the same time is not evidence that there's intentional poll-skewing going on.

[PaulImposteur]

Can't go by IP. My room-mate logged on forum to vote when I told him about this post earlier.

[Azroth]

The concern I have is that drows ICly are treated as a deadly threat, and, because of that, it's hard to imagine a peaceful resolution of a group of drows meeting a group of goodly adventurers visiting an area in the north.

IC conflict is great but not so much if it turns into a PvP-fest. I don't know if it's going to happen, maybe it happens and becomes enjoyable all-around? Who knows, but let's not rule out the possibilities of people OOC-ly avoiding areas or players and, at worst, PvP dramas leading to players quitting.

thing is, yes, some of it turns into PvP very quickly with some. Others like me may issue an IC warning 1st before escalation, as appropriate.

In a general sense, however, IC wise. If good-ly (or Drow) folks go all murder hobo in select NPC population areas, they are bound to either

1) Get resistance from NPC's in time with DM efforts in coordination with player groups.
2) Lose standing with NPC's that these good folks may have ties to for bringing danger on their own front, as time goes on from the aftermath.

But in a general sense, it's just using common sense really. "If I do [X] action, what is the [Y] outcome?"

always build good pvp karma.

Besides most who go heavy into PvP for all the wrong reasons don't last long anyhow. It would leave a bad impression on new players, but older ones know how that story goes.

[Anrilor]

Saying no for a multitude of reasons

1. if no one is playing drow/UD because there is no RP, then why not make it into NPC/DM and make it the big bad? imo, if we (the players) despite being level 30 are treated in story line as level 15s, that's the big bad those level ranges usually head down into.

2. if you need to come to a place that you are KoS to get your RP fix, and you are starved for RP, then why not make a surface character to RP as?

3. the general 'safe' area that has been abused to hell and back again by UD is the shrine of Eldath in the Reaching Woods, where veiled threats, taunts, etc are made because its a shrine to peace and therefor no blood should be shed there, so people use it to troll and try to force a reaction from other people. Making more 'safe' areas for UD people will likely only increase that. "I'm Evil, I'm a drow, I taunt you, but because you follow your silly surface laws, you can't do anything about it Blows Razzberries" isn't exactly compelling RP, and I fear that is what the 'safe' areas will turn into, "I am going to be mean and insulting as an evil character, and you can't touch me, because I will just teleport out after saying all these horrible things and spreading horrible lies about people and just slip away out of your reach." Just gets annoying rather then compelling. Plus if you are evil and want to make deals with other evil factions, taking away the clandestine meetings in deep caves, just to be able to show up to the bar in sobar and talk about such plots openly is sort of 'meh' as well.

4. How is adding a safe place on the surface for UD people going to help UD players sense you have to get through epic areas as it is to even cross the barrier to the surface? as it was pointed out, you already have to be epic levels to get up to the surface, which means weeks of grinding as a new UDer just to even reach these new 'Safe' places.

5. If you are choosing a Monster Race to play, and you are by basically playing any UD character that goes to the surface, don't be surprised at your lack of RP. The same should be said of Surfacer's going to the UD for RP, you are the monster down there, they are the residents.

I will say when I first joined the server 4 years ago, I was told that if you liked PvP you went to the UD because that's what went down there. You made characters for conflict. You fought each other for power until you made it to the surface and then you raided the surface because it was a common enemy, but the general theme was PvP with an RP basis.

IF this goes through, I'd say Soubar, as there is already an Ilithid living in the camp, so there is already a UD presence in town, and maybe Darkhold if they decided they wanted to make some pact or allience. Otherwise the areas should still be KoS in my opinion.

[Azroth]

Saying no for a multitude of reasons

1. if no one is playing drow/UD because there is no RP, then why not make it into NPC/DM and make it the big bad? imo, if we (the players) despite being level 30 are treated in story line as level 15s, that's the big bad those level ranges usually head down into.

2. if you need to come to a place that you are KoS to get your RP fix, and you are starved for RP, then why not make a surface character to RP as?

3. the general 'safe' area that has been abused to hell and back again by UD is the shrine of Eldath in the Reaching Woods, where veiled threats, taunts, etc are made because its a shrine to peace and therefor no blood should be shed there, so people use it to troll and try to force a reaction from other people. Making more 'safe' areas for UD people will likely only increase that. "I'm Evil, I'm a drow, I taunt you, but because you follow your silly surface laws, you can't do anything about it Blows Razzberries" isn't exactly compelling RP, and I fear that is what the 'safe' areas will turn into, "I am going to be mean and insulting as an evil character, and you can't touch me, because I will just teleport out after saying all these horrible things and spreading horrible lies about people and just slip away out of your reach." Just gets annoying rather then compelling. Plus if you are evil and want to make deals with other evil factions, taking away the clandestine meetings in deep caves, just to be able to show up to the bar in sobar and talk about such plots openly is sort of 'meh' as well.

4. How is adding a safe place on the surface for UD people going to help UD players sense you have to get through epic areas as it is to even cross the barrier to the surface? as it was pointed out, you already have to be epic levels to get up to the surface, which means weeks of grinding as a new UDer just to even reach these new 'Safe' places.

I will say when I first joined the server 4 years ago, I was told that if you liked PvP you went to the UD because that's what went down there. You made characters for conflict. You fought each other for power until you made it to the surface and then you raided the surface because it was a common enemy, but the general theme was PvP with an RP basis.

IF this goes through, I'd say Soubar, as there is already an Ilithid living in the camp, so there is already a UD presence in town, and maybe Darkhold if they decided they wanted to make some pact or allience. Otherwise the areas should still be KoS in my opinion.

So, I will also like to clarify on Eldath here for everyone.

Typical allies are: Mielikki, Silvanus, Chauntea, Selûne, Lathander

That said folks who follow people like Shevarash, etc? Have at it! If Drow are 'desecrating a shine's presence with their IC taint? They go after them.

But in a general sense, I fully agree with the KoS rules and am fine with it. Or even heavier consequences in general for doing so to make others kinda think twice if they care enough about the character, or better yet, how well does their character value their own life for such a reward they are after?

The reason for regulations at the time was due to Drow players kinda making a stink with the rest, as the Drow race was/is a PvP powerhouse when done right.
But no one really enforces it much that I was able to take notice in recent times when the Drow player base dropped some. So the problem more or less seems to have potentially sorted itself out.