Concern on the new guild outpost system.

[V'rass]

The reason this place bleeds players and staff runs in circles to try to "fix" it is because every damn thing is railed against.

This place sucks the life and enthusiasm out of anyone that does just about anything remotely positive for the server.

I sadly have to agree. The server in general has had a tendency to stagnation and resistance to any change because, (insert reasons). Its definitely one of the reasons why BGTSCC is dying and its sad to see.

[Necromantis]

So let me get this straight... first we establish that there are not enough DMs willing or able to do plots that forward personal goals such as acquiring guild assets or outposts the proper way, through RP and hard work. Then, we appearently decide to enable an arbitrary points system that, as people have already discussed, will quite clearly be the subject of favoritism, misuse, and a lot of unnecessary bookkeeping. A system that will be have to be moderated and monitored by... guess who? Said DM Team that already claimed to be too busy for personal plots! That you now want to have to be present for every little guild meeting? Every recruitment effort? Every patrol? Every training?

Oh and to top it off, now you can also just throw gold at it to make guild outposts, because it's not like we have a multimillionare minority that will benefit greatly. And everyone else will have to mindlessly continue grinding through the same dungeons over and over, which also means less roleplay.

And lastly, the manner of acquiring these points further relies on interaction with one's guild alone, and not at all with other guilds or individuals. Which will only result in more behind closed doors RP, and less of an experience for those that aren't part of a faction, or aren't willing to be a part of one. Which further alienates any potential newcomers.

My two cents? Focus on the little things, before you focus on the big picture. If the DMs appearently have enough time for arbitrary bookkeeping for some kind of pseudo-MMO system, then they have enough time to make the world feel alive, for once. Atmosphere. Things like the Fist arresting some thief without adventurer interference. Some nobles gossiping about recent events. Someone asks one of the local guilds to get their cat out of a tree, hell, I don't know. Little things that make the world feel alive, and not just sitting on a bench waiting for the next world-threatening event to occur, or for people to go "Oh, did you hear, x guild made a new outpost. I guess we'll have to do some arbitrary meetings so we can have enough points for a counter move."

[Dolorof]

To me this system is not arbitrary at all, its the other way around and if anything this will at least allow other people to make their own cliques.
Its not like cliques are not a thing today, they are and a major one to be honest. . .This will allow any newcomer to actually build their own cliques or decide to be open about it.

[Rain]

Imo I don't believe this to bring up or bring forth new cliques or old cliques. This entire system reinforces current cliques... "here and now groups" that have already been close and continue to induct new members and players because realistically they are the only current guilds and cliques have anything going and / or most of the players in them from being well established and well groomed by the past and present DM team.

This point system is not going to all the sudden spark up old guild leaders to want to lead again and it's definitely not going to spark up new guild leaders who might think this system is a good idea then try and make a new guild or group just to find out that "main group A and B" already have most of the server dedicated to them and no one wants to split their time with a new guild or an old guild when the current guilds have all the power and will excel at that once this MMOified outpost system is put in place.

And don't think i'm speaking out of spite because alot of people know me to write up and design hundreds of RP post and log post all the time. So I would most definitely be gaining something from this system naturally from something I already do because I want not because I have to.

So let me get this straight... first we establish that there are not enough DMs willing or able to do plots that forward personal goals such as acquiring guild assets or outposts the proper way, through RP and hard work. Then, we appearently decide to enable an arbitrary points system that, as people have already discussed, will quite clearly be the subject of favoritism, misuse, and a lot of unnecessary bookkeeping. A system that will be have to be moderated and monitored by... guess who? Said DM Team that already claimed to be too busy for personal plots! That you now want to have to be present for every little guild meeting? Every recruitment effort? Every patrol? Every training?

Oh and to top it off, now you can also just throw gold at it to make guild outposts, because it's not like we have a multimillionare minority that will benefit greatly. And everyone else will have to mindlessly continue grinding through the same dungeons over and over, which also means less roleplay.

And lastly, the manner of acquiring these points further relies on interaction with one's guild alone, and not at all with other guilds or individuals. Which will only result in more behind closed doors RP, and less of an experience for those that aren't part of a faction, or aren't willing to be a part of one. Which further alienates any potential newcomers.

My two cents? Focus on the little things, before you focus on the big picture. If the DMs appearently have enough time for arbitrary bookkeeping for some kind of pseudo-MMO system, then they have enough time to make the world feel alive, for once. Atmosphere. Things like the Fist arresting some thief without adventurer interference. Some nobles gossiping about recent events. Someone asks one of the local guilds to get their cat out of a tree, hell, I don't know. Little things that make the world feel alive, and not just sitting on a bench waiting for the next world-threatening event to occur, or for people to go "Oh, did you hear, x guild made a new outpost. I guess we'll have to do some arbitrary meetings so we can have enough points for a counter move."

I whole heartedly agree with everything that was said here and I am strongly against this system for most if not all that was said in this quote. The sad thing about this Necromantis is that more then likely we have opinions but we don't truly have a say and even worst then that is the pain of saying "we told you so" when it's a game, server and community we care about. The system will be pushed out half the server will hate it half the server will like it and the server will continue to be split into a smaller player base yet again.

[Dolorof]

This point system is not going to all the sudden spark up old guild leaders to want to lead again and it's definitely not going to spark up new guild leaders who might think this system is a good idea

Well, i know my guild is pretty excited about this, naturally i can only speak for myself.

[Moridin]

My guilds are excited about this as well!

[Alexander Holgart]

Hidden: show

So let me get this straight... first we establish that there are not enough DMs willing or able to do plots that forward personal goals such as acquiring guild assets or outposts the proper way, through RP and hard work. Then, we appearently decide to enable an arbitrary points system that, as people have already discussed, will quite clearly be the subject of favoritism, misuse, and a lot of unnecessary bookkeeping. A system that will be have to be moderated and monitored by... guess who? Said DM Team that already claimed to be too busy for personal plots! That you now want to have to be present for every little guild meeting? Every recruitment effort? Every patrol? Every training?

Oh and to top it off, now you can also just throw gold at it to make guild outposts, because it's not like we have a multimillionare minority that will benefit greatly. And everyone else will have to mindlessly continue grinding through the same dungeons over and over, which also means less roleplay.

And lastly, the manner of acquiring these points further relies on interaction with one's guild alone, and not at all with other guilds or individuals. Which will only result in more behind closed doors RP, and less of an experience for those that aren't part of a faction, or aren't willing to be a part of one. Which further alienates any potential newcomers.

My two cents? Focus on the little things, before you focus on the big picture. If the DMs appearently have enough time for arbitrary bookkeeping for some kind of pseudo-MMO system, then they have enough time to make the world feel alive, for once. Atmosphere. Things like the Fist arresting some thief without adventurer interference. Some nobles gossiping about recent events. Someone asks one of the local guilds to get their cat out of a tree, hell, I don't know. Little things that make the world feel alive, and not just sitting on a bench waiting for the next world-threatening event to occur, or for people to go "Oh, did you hear, x guild made a new outpost. I guess we'll have to do some arbitrary meetings so we can have enough points for a counter move."

Imo I don't believe this to bring up or bring forth new cliques or old cliques. This entire system reinforces current cliques... "here and now groups" that have already been close and continue to induct new members and players because realistically they are the only current guilds and cliques have anything going and / or most of the players in them from being well established and well groomed by the past and present DM team.

I find myself agreeing with both Necromantis and Rain. (Quoted just above)

My mind only sees this system reinforcing those who are already strong, increasing the distance with those who are not. As a consequence the current status quo/factions in the server will be reinforced with less encouragement for people to shift things and bring something new to a level that can be considered relevant.

The gold part I simply can't stand, a RP server should not reward gold farming in my opinion.

But as I said on my original post, we will see how it will actually play out on stage... I'm simply pessimistic about it.

Additional edit:
I personally have no intention to use or interact with this system with my character but if I had that intention and wish to achieve those things I would still pass, mostly because it feels more like a list of chores more than doing anything fun (at least to me).

[Dolorof]

The system is not entirely automated, i trust the DMs will be overseeing it.
Honestly i see it the other way a round, i see it as a chance for new guilds to actually achieve something.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

What is the end goal of the gameplay loop other than additional map markers when the freshness of the system simmers?

[AsuraKing]

The gold part I simply can't stand, a RP server should not reward gold farming in my opinion.

.....

I personally have no intention to use or interact with this system with my character but if I had that intention and wish to achieve those things I would still pass, mostly because it feels more like a list of chores more than doing anything fun (at least to me).

These two bits are the biggest part to me and I agree 100%. Gold grinding and forum homework has never been enjoyable to me, and adding a system that essentially forces guilds to do that if they want to be relevant is well.... a terrible direction. Sure I dont mind doing a little forum homework from time to time, but needing to log every big of activity in hopes you can keep up with larger more aggressive groups trying to set up camp on your front lawn will be a nightmare.

[yyj]

What is the difference in points between someone who makes a long detailed post vs a shorter style of writing?

How are those measured? Does any post count?

If DMs were supporting outposts before this system, why nobody cared to make one?

[DaloLorn]

If DMs were supporting outposts before this system, why nobody cared to make one?

They did. The Zhent garrison at Corm Orp. The Thayan tent in Sshamath. Rocky Creek's caravans. All of these were allowed, but the broad majority of the playerbase had no idea how to go about doing the same thing.

[Rain]

Here are my two cents if the DM and Admin team are reallllyyy adamant about making a change.

First off - The "Role-play" points system can't be a thing. In MMO terms, this kind of thing is called Dailies / Weeklies and this does not work for the RP setting and community that BG is catered towards. If we need a way to track how invested guilds are with systems... well firstly I would make the system a free formed idea and not a set in stone functionality. The problem here is that system in place tells players "you get this if you do this". This is not very collaborative of the DND genre where the players should have free reign over their imagination of what they want to do, where they want to go, where they invest their time and how they do that. "Theme-Parking" guilds into an idea that is for a singular objective strays away from this aspect. If a guild puts in enough time why can't their time invested be into what "they" wanted. Instead of an outpost if a guild wanted to (Examples:) [Spread their influence by making the locals in the area fear or obey them by militaristic, terrorist, or magical power.] [Destroy or convert the landscape because it hinders or goes against their god's dogma.] [Cause a species of failed test experiments to have to habitat in an area causing problems with the eco-system.] [Setting up a organized bandit group that takes control of a part of the trade route to waylay trade caravans.]

This all comes back to a similar notion alot of detractors of this idea had and that's for the DM team to spend more time refining the atmosphere of the server. People ask and request for ideas and plans to change the server all the time but I guarantee you the majority of these ideas are forgotten or thrown out the window when they would have the same effect if not a BETTER effect then this theme-parked outpost system which I suppose is only being promised because it's something that the DM team can keep a leash on like all other impactful decisions and influences in the server.

Edit: TLDR: Simple solution. Give players more freedom and more impactful server changing choices they can make both as individuals and as guilds and stop holding us by the collar when players make these choices.

[Dolorof]

If DMs were supporting outposts before this system, why nobody cared to make one?

They did. The Zhent garrison at Corm Orp. The Thayan tent in Sshamath. Rocky Creek's caravans. All of these were allowed, but the broad majority of the playerbase had no idea how to go about doing the same thing.

This really. Its why i said twice that this is a fair system that will only be good for new players.

[SpookySkeleton]

I think this system looks fine on it's face. Although it relies on DM intervention with assigning "points", so does most of the rest of developing a proper guild on this server. I think the only issue could be that one faction gets more DM attention than another, resulting in them owning more outposts, regardless of the other faction wanting to RP and earn "points".

This is not to say that DMs have favoritism, but their time is finite, and things could be overlooked.

I think that the current system will work just fine for unoccupied areas. But a separate system should be in place for when two or more player factions are in contest for the same area.