Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2022)

[Snarfy]

if staff states that the coming mob revamp will lower all mob ab by 5, then the color of this entire conversation changes.

Totally agree. Lets hope that's even something that's on the table, because some of the content has utterly ridiculous stats.

Dual Wield Fighter builds with high Dexterity.
Even without UMD, Adrian can solo the Frost Giant King, using only a Heroism Potion, and a Shield Brooch. 48 AB, 56 AC, 12 APR, and double +2 Vampiric weapons. No EW, Epic Dodge, or KD immunity.

The build he is using isn't even the strongest option out there for a Dex Fighter build.

By comparison, at 35AC, mid 30's AB, 10 APR, zero buffs, and all the rogue tricks, I can solo the FGK as well... it just takes me a while longer, and a lot of abusing line of sight

Now, one could easily argue that a loss of X amount of AC / AB wont affect either of us when it comes to dealing with this type of content. But the argument works the other way as well, as in: what's the point of nerfing tumble when A. I will still be able to game the system, and B. You will still have 53 freaking AC ( ... something no-one will never see on any rogue). Does this change make either of our characters unplayable? Of course not. But I wager it will affect my build more than yours, as in: it will be more tedious to deal with lower CR zones, as all the monsters that were only occasionally pelting me will be doing so more often, and that I will need to avoid even more of those difficult zones, or tip toe around around even more than I already do (which was already a lot... for example: I literally stealth through the entirety of Frost Giant Keep, and fight only if I have to).

In a nutshell, rogue archetypes already have crap AB, crap AC, crap saves. We don't need the hit, especially when there is no benefit to using "fight defensively", buying more AC gear, and especially not RCR'ing.

[Young Werther]

Oh and please bring back upscaling encounters!
Make mechanics fun again.

Larger or higher-level group = more and more badass spawns. Right now, the larger the group -> the duller the gameplay and challenge.
That's also a reason why some players enjoy soloing.

Uhm, yes? Where's the petition?

[MrSmith]

I'd also note, again, that builds that can max Tumble often are unarmored/light armored builds, which are currently the strongest builds on the server.

I can only assume this is referring to monks and.... ??? Which other light armor builds are the most powerful exactly? Full tumble mages?

Monk’s AC prowess is not what it appears… I've shared the QC support Chad#s provided me in the past based on my perception that my 30th level Monk was taking way too much damage. Here is what he shared... Monk's first round AC loss is 27 points, which [he] theorized is due to the first round considering him flat footed.

Subsequently, TPK shared his Monk/Shadow Dancer build with me with Uncanny/Improved Uncanny Dodge... thus eliminating the problem. Pure Monk builds suffer from being caught flat footed.

Cheers!

[Steve]

I'd also note, again, that builds that can max Tumble often are unarmored/light armored builds, which are currently the strongest builds on the server.

I can only assume this is referring to monks and.... ??? Which other light armor builds are the most powerful exactly? Full tumble mages?

Monk’s AC prowess is not what it appears… I've shared the QC support Chad#s provided me in the past based on my perception that my 30th level Monk was taking way too much damage. Here is what he shared... Monk's first round AC loss is 27 points, which [he] theorized is due to the first round considering him flat footed.

Subsequently, TPK shared his Monk/Shadow Dancer build with me with Uncanny/Improved Uncanny Dodge... thus eliminating the problem. Pure Monk builds suffer from being caught flat footed.

Cheers!

And again, especially with so much AC moving to Dodge type, Uncanny Dodge becomes the must have Feat. Hi, I’m Steve, the broken record of truth.

[mrm3ntalist]

And again, especially with so much AC moving to Dodge type, Uncanny Dodge becomes the must have Feat. Hi, I’m Steve, the broken record of truth.

I was telling a friend this, when discussing the upcoming changes. One thing that the team wanted to discourage in the the past, was the rogue dips. That was part of the reason for the evasion change - not working with medium/heavy armors. Now we came a full circle and with everything and their mother being dodge AC, that uncanny dodge is a must have feat now. Which means, more rogue4 dips for everyone.

[Blame The Rogue]

so my character, a fighter/rogue adventurer lost an armor ac to retain evasion, because rogue adventurers are not encouraged? rogues are supposed to make good adventurers. and this system is made specifically for multi-classing. does this mean i can have my mithral fp back and keep my evasion?

[Steve]

Which means, more rogue4 dips for everyone.

You mean to say everyone wasn't already dipping 4 Rogue?!!? I'm shocked...SHOCKED!!

[mrm3ntalist]

so my character, a fighter/rogue adventurer lost an armor ac to retain evasion, because rogue adventurers are not encouraged? rogues are supposed to make good adventurers. and this system is made specifically for multi-classing. does this mean i can have my mithral fp back and keep my evasion?

Yes and from what it seems no

[zhazz]

snip

There's been a lot of clarifications, and considered alterations posted in this thread as response to questions and complaints.

For the sake of clarity, and players not yet having found this thread, could all such replies be added to the original post?
A lot of comments seem to circle around and back to already answered questions.

It might help provide a clearer picture for everyone, which I think is needed at this time.

[Hullack]

[* Tenacious Plague now gains a bonus to AB equal to the Warlock's Charisma modifier. In addition, as long as one swarm hits its target, the target must make a Fortitude saving throw against poison or be dazed for one round. This save can only happen once per round, regardless of how many swarms hit the target. Tenacious Plague also lasts 6 rounds, and no longer hits allies.]

Is there any way to make the poison DC track with blast DC. It seems to currently be a flat 19 DC currently which soon becomes only a 1 in 20 chance due to mob saves.

[spyvsspy]

Just to confirm: Fighting Defensively, Total Defence, they are combat modes just like CE or monk's Fob. Not the combat styles (One Weapon, Northlander Hewing etc.). They also have icons in the "modes" bar so can be actived in polymorphing, while combat styles will be disabled. Is this correct?


Does Total Defence still use "Parry mode"? I mean are the old mechanisms of parry still exist? Such like you can only block 1 attack per furry. Is the feat Improved Parry still available?

[Rhifox]

Just to confirm: Fighting Defensively, Total Defence, they are combat modes just like CE or monk's Fob. Not the combat styles (One Weapon, Northlander Hewing etc.). They also have icons in the "modes" bar so can be actived in polymorphing, while combat styles will be disabled. Is this correct?

Correct. Everything in this (both modes and actions) are part of a combat bar that can be used in any form.

Does Total Defence still use "Parry mode"? I mean are the old mechanisms of parry still exist? Such like you can only block 1 attack per furry. Is the feat Improved Parry still available?

Yes. It's basically a buff to Parry mode by giving it bonus AC alongside its normal mechanics.

snip

There's been a lot of clarifications, and considered alterations posted in this thread as response to questions and complaints.

For the sake of clarity, and players not yet having found this thread, could all such replies be added to the original post?
A lot of comments seem to circle around and back to already answered questions.

It might help provide a clearer picture for everyone, which I think is needed at this time.

I'll do an updated one when I have time.

[Rinzler]

- Vampiric Feast now has the Death descriptor and obeys death immunity, like Avasculate, and it now only affects living targets, but its shadow is now 20 HD instead of 9, with significantly better stats and a new appearance (One-of-Many model).

I acknowledge that this likely comes from a place of bias as I play a necromancer, but death ward entirely nullifying vampiric feast makes me sad. The decision has been made, but most epic bosses have built in death immunity and negative energy immunity (Pit Fiend) which made vampiric feast the only viable tool a necromancer had against them. If I can’t dispel death ward, as someone here previously pointed out, it makes vampiric feast a glorified wail of the banshee and is making me seriously consider a RCR with a different epic feat. That said, could you perhaps consider removing built in death immunity/negative energy immunity to some epic bosses? Even if you cranked up their fortitude and allowed them to pass a save even when rolling a 1, it would allow necromancers to be effective against epic bosses especially if you can cast negative energy spells that would bring down fortitude. Let me caveat by saying I’m not asking/expecting to be able to 1-shot the pit fiend, but being able to damage it or get lucky with a negative energy crit + a low roll on vampiric feast it has potential (even at a low %) for success.

[Kitunenotsume]

Hi Rinzler,

To my knowledge, there is plan to review and revise the PvE experience, including bosses and encounters, as outlined by the Roadmap.
My understanding is that the Martial update is next on the queue accompanied by ToT, after which the Encounter/PvE update will be on the docket for progress. It's well known that many bosses and mobs are well outside the scope of practical challenge for less optimized characters, but will take some time and patience before they get their dev-time.

While I know that doesn't help right now, hopefully it alleviates some concern regarding the currently announced staff intention.

[zhazz]

When does Duelist get access to the revamped Elaborate Parry?

I ask because gaining access to it at class level 7 introduces a huge spike in AC of +7, due to most Duelist likely already using Fighting Defensively or Total Defense at that point. Seems a huge spike for something scaling with class levels.

Edit:
Will Fighting Defensively satisfy the requirements for Thief Acrobat's Agile Fighting to increase the AC bonus from +1 to +2?