Why should I take the Disciple of Darkness feat? I don't get it.

[Anarkitty]

Those feats have nothing to do with pacts, I'm sorry I'm not sure how clearer I can be. Being a worshipper of X does NOT mean you have a pact with X, they're not mutually exclusive but they're also not mutually inclusive.

If you want to RP the making of your pact in game, I personally suggest making your character, rping it a bit and trying to find an opportunity for such, then making a DM request about it

OK, I'm talking about my character. I want to BOTH worship AND possibly make a pact. I can't make that any simpler. My character, not yours, mine. I want to worship possibly the one being that gave MY character's family this gift/curse. Yes, I know this feat is only for followers of a "nonofficial" deity. I can't make that point any simpler. WE agree but are not understanding each other.

[Anarkitty]

It sounds as though your concern is that the feat isn't on-par with other choices for feats, and the answer is that it is not intended to be.

My understanding is that choosing a non-deity is a similar decision to taking the Commoner class, accepting a Malus feat, or choosing the limited respawn options on character creation.
None of them grant character power, doing much the opposite in being actively mechanically detrimental to the player who takes it, but provides a different set of experiences that can influence how a character's narrative grows and may be desirable by some people choosing to give a particular tone to their story.

If you have a particular story in mind to tell, it might be best to bring your idea up to the DM team about how to reasonably go about that objective.
If you wish to form a pact as part of your character's story, it is probably appropriate to make a DM request for a Deity change during the event where the bargain is struck.

This! That's what I want. But if by the time that happens, and i'm level 30, am I going to have to RcR back to 20 just to take the feat so that I don't face permadeath like every other privileged normie character gets to? By the time all that factors in, most will look at this and go....yeah, I'll just go with Cyric. Nice, easy, and has flavor. Maybe its flavor that's overdone but....screw it. Not worth it. If this was a real PnP table top game, i'd trust it more because of dedicated DM and "the rule of cool" being in play. It's hard for me to trust this server will somehow reward me for a useless feat that I won't even see. I took the wish spell and it is totally mechanically useless. But you know what? I can trust my wish spell during a DM event (provided planning, material cost, etc) will get more attention than my little Disciple of Darkness feat will get. i'm not against taking useless stuff for RP purposes. But at least with spells, Sorcerers got more spells to cast so I lost one useful 9th level spell but gained like 1-8lv extra spells. Win! Balanced, as everything should be.

[Kitunenotsume]

You appears to be suggesting that your character will be trying to negotiate a pact with some entity without any leverage, and with knowledge of their nature from level 1?

It would be entirely reasonable to choose any deity, including goodly ones, during a character's initial investigation into where their family's sorcerous power comes from. As the saying goes, "Power corrupts"; Once the character learns the true nature of their bloodline, a player could then try to make contact with a bargaining chip of "I'll worship you if you pay me to offset the feat plus extra power" (though in most cases that is a chaotic or evil act if one is considering some fell power).
If a character were to worship them from the start the entity really dosen't gain anything from the exchange, and the character is already consigned to the Wall when they die for the entity to use or abuse at their leisure.

If you contact the DM team before or during the start of your adventures, and don't blitz your way through leveling through sheer single-minded grinding, there is likely to be ample time and opportunity to have a meaningful character arc before hitting level cap. All a matter of keeping open communication and being willing to talk through expectations and intentions.
Even then - if a DM approves the need to rebuild, they have the capacity to grant full-RCRs to characters who warrant them (such as from mechanically invasive character development).

Edited to clarify hypothetical discussion.

[Anarkitty]

You appears to be suggesting that your character will be trying to negotiate a pact with some entity without any leverage, and with knowledge of their nature from level 1?

It would be entirely reasonable to choose any deity, including goodly ones, during your character's initial investigation into where their family's sorcerous power comes from. As the saying goes, "Power corrupts"; Once the character learns the true nature of their bloodline, you can then try to make contact with a bargaining chip of "I'll worship you if you pay me to offset the feat plus extra power" (though in most cases that is a chaotic or evil act if you are considering some fell power).
If you worship them from the start they really don't gain anything from the exchange, and you are already consigned to the Wall when you die for them to use or abuse at their leisure.

If you contact the DM team before or during the start of your adventures, and don't blitz your way through leveling through sheer single-minded grinding, there is likely to be ample time and opportunity to have a meaningful character arc before hitting level cap. All a matter of keeping open communication and being willing to talk through expectations and intentions.
Even then - if a DM approves the need to rebuild, they have the capacity to grant full-RCRs to characters who warrant them (such as from mechanically invasive character development).

Um, no, that's a whole lot of assumptions. My character should be level 30, but because I wanted to test some new mechanics added into the game and they didn't work as intended, I had to RCR back to 20. By the time my character comes to BG, she has spent decades worth of time and coin researching into where a particular tome would be and all sources point to an obscure text kept within Candlekeep's library. That's what I was coming up with. We fill in the blanks as the RP unfolds. She has researched into arcane and planes lore, has spells to boost her lore, and has the wish spell. I'd say that is at the very least, a good start into a good RP line. Some evil deity blessed/cursed her family with arcane power for some purpose unknown to any mortals. Just a pawn in a large game trying to improve her plight...or ruin her future. That's kind of what happens when you gamble with higher powers who are malevolent.

[Anarkitty]

It's Ok, I found a nice boring deity that should cause no issues. Ubtao is the one most worshipped in Chult but there is Sseth and Eshowdow. Eshowdow should work. he is basically another version of Shar and eventually gets consumed by Shar in like the 1370's. No, it's not exactly what I wanted. I wanted specifically Devils. I guess it can work and I'll feel alright about it. Just one less real devil worshipper to grace BGTSCC's server. It just sucks to be punished for wanting to worship a particular being. I can play pretty much any other RPG out there and worship any of their gods or demigods without this much restriction on something that is essentially flavor. Imagine playing Skyrim and you want to become Azura's champion, but she is like, well, you can't maximize your two handed feats because I'm special and need more of your feats devoted to me in order for you to "worship" me. Fun! lets see how many players line up to be her champion....like 3 hardcore people while the 97 go...."screw this, Boethia doesn't require #@$% and she gives some bad@#$ armor to boot."

This doesn't make the world feel more lived in, its just a mechanical rule that serves very little purpose and just turns people off from doing something different. Nothing about worshipping any deity will mechanically change the way my character performs. In the end, it is flavoring. Its a name on a sheet. it's numbers. Why do more people take Wail of the Banshee over Weird? Because one is obviously waaaay better than the other. Mechanics do matter and also represent what is happening in the world. Losing a feat makes a difference. if it doesn't, just take random feats as you level up your character and see if you are happy with it. If it doesn't matter, play a farmer who is a mage and has an intelligence of 8 and can't even cast a cantrip. Happy? That's cool, for you. 99% of players are going to be like, "oh hells no!" I actually want my character to be effective in whatever purpose I built them for.

[Anarkitty]

My character: *Summons a Pit Fiend.*

Villagers: "By the gods! A devil worshipper!"

My character: "Now! Now! I only conjure devils, I can't worship them because they require too much from me unlike more traditional and official evil gods. Get it right!"

Villagers: "Um...Devil worshipper!"

My character: *whispering to herself* "I'll take what I can get..." *now out loud* "Yeah, that's right! Hail the Hells!"

[Kitunenotsume]

It definitely sounds like consulting with the DM team on your character and how to implement their plot is your best option here.
The ideal circumstance you seek may certainly be possible, but would need to be discussed and approved by the staff in a direct DM request (available via the tool-link on the top-left of these forum pages), or by submitting a biography as outlined in the recent announcements

Debate with other players on an open forum isn't going to provide any authoritative guidance, unfortunately, and I have adjusted the language in my earlier post to clarify that the consideration of how it could be approached is nonspecific to any given individual.

I wish you the best of luck with your character.

[Hullack]

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Afterlife

This is worth a read if you haven't already. Generally not worshipping a deity in Forgotten Realms is a bad idea. So is devil worship because you end up reincarnated as a scrub tier devil. I'm assuming most people do it because they got tricked into it, lied to, or it was somehow the less bad of other options.

The Disciple of Darkness feat let's you escape the usual fate that awaits you after death. It not being mechanically advantageous to worship devils is kind of baked into the setting. You may be able to get some benefit out of such an arrangement, but as Kit suggested it would likely have to come about as some form of DM sponsored RP.