Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Deathgrowl wrote:

mrieder79 wrote:I LIKE all the new warlocks. It makes it more interesting. Now the OSR and the other good guilds can have something to monitor and talk about. God help us if we run out of evil to fight against! I find the encounters I have had with warlocks to be quite fun and invigorating.

This isn't the point at all. People may play as evil as they want. It's not about that. It's all the terribly OOC warlocks grinding, and running all the time, without any knowledge or understanding of the lore behind their class. That is the problem.

Now change the word 'warlock' with any other class name and I dare to say the sentence makes as much sense as before.

Servin wrote:

Deathgrowl wrote:

mrieder79 wrote:I LIKE all the new warlocks. It makes it more interesting. Now the OSR and the other good guilds can have something to monitor and talk about. God help us if we run out of evil to fight against! I find the encounters I have had with warlocks to be quite fun and invigorating.

This isn't the point at all. People may play as evil as they want. It's not about that. It's all the terribly OOC warlocks grinding, and running all the time, without any knowledge or understanding of the lore behind their class. That is the problem.

Now change the word 'warlock' with any other class name and I dare to say the sentence makes as much sense as before.

Fair enough. At least the first part. Some classes aren't as lore heavy, so there's not so much lore to understand.

But yeah, I still think the constant running and OOC grinding is sad.

I totally agree on making warlocks application class only. Basically all the new warlocks we have are two bit saturday evening cartoon villains that nonchalantly go around blasting/summoning fiends/threatening/whatever wearing a sign reading "look amme! I ahm an evool wahlock gangstah!".

BESIDES: warlocks are SUPPOSED to be rare. Are SUPPOSED to be hated and feared. And there is a very good reason for that.

@Deathgrowl

Nope. All of it. There are people playing in the Underdark without any lore whatsoever. There's more, many of them refuse to learn any... And, surprise, it's not class dependent. They just spend all their time grinding in the mines all day long, polishing their power builds, or like you said, running around and grinding.

RP in the tavern is hard to come by lately, but luckily there are still some who do find it a sport and I get my share of a chatter.

Darksider_war wrote:I totally agree on making warlocks application class only. Basically all the new warlocks we have are two bit saturday evening cartoon villains that nonchalantly go around blasting/summoning fiends/threatening/whatever wearing a sign reading "look amme! I ahm an evool wahlock gangstah!".

BESIDES: warlocks are SUPPOSED to be rare. Are SUPPOSED to be hated and feared. And there is a very good reason for that.

Having said that, so should be the wizards. Remember that, despite the illusion of the server and million gold pieces on player accounts, most of the populace are peasants in poverty, who would not be able to sent their kids to study magic. Add wars, conflicts and such and there you have it.

Servin wrote:@Deathgrowl

Nope. All of it. There are people playing in the Underdark without any lore whatsoever. There's more, many of them refuse to learn any... And, surprise, it's not class dependent. They just spend all their time grinding in the mines all day long, polishing their power builds, or like you said, running around and grinding.

Yeah, but that's not lore about the class, as I was talking about. That's lore about race and/or location. But of course I agree with you.

I don't think any base class should have application, by the way. But as with clerics forced to choose domains and play according to their god's dogma, I think warlocks should be enforced in some way. Same with druids, spirit shamans, paladins, and any other base or prestige class that have heavy lore.

Yes. After several experiences where people say "NO DON'T KILL THE DEVIL, HE'S HELPING ME!" and just generally don't understand the concept of pact mages, I just try to avoid those warlocks who don't seem to be all that serious and are generally just running and grinding.

+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

not to mention all those that say "Oh come on, you can't be too harsh on him, he's a fey pacted warlock!", while in truth, and the manuals are pretty clear about it, the fey creatures that grant a warlock his or her powers are, 99% of times, as bad as the devils that mostly grant them such magic if not even more so, because devils have some control, feys are totally chaotic in their behaviour.

And apart from that, of course, there is no really way to be sure if the guy is indeed a fey pact warlock as he claims to be or not.

Other times instead you get all kinds of nonsensical answers like "try not to judge a book by its cover" and such.

Having said that, so should be the wizards. Remember that, despite the illusion of the server and million gold pieces on player accounts, most of the populace are peasants in poverty, who would not be able to sent their kids to study magic. Add wars, conflicts and such and there you have it.

for that matter, there are acadamies and colleges of magic scattered all over faerun, and some of them do not even require fees if the student is talented enough. Some cultures (elves; red wizards of thay) actively promote the study of the arcane and said studies, in some cases, are easily available to most. There is a reason for Sun and Moon elves having Wizard as a favored class. And also let us keep in mind that a wizard's magic is neither as rare nor hated as the magic of a warlock.

Servin wrote:They just spend all their time grinding in the mines all day long, polishing their power builds, or like you said, running around and grinding.

Well, if they're Fighters or something, there's not as much lore involved. But there are PLENTY of classes that are just as lore-heavy as warlocks, I agree. *nod*

Deathgrowl wrote: Yeah, but that's not lore about the class, as I was talking about. That's lore about race and/or location. But of course I agree with you.

Well it's as much as a game spoiler as lack of lore on many other aspects. The fact that we're talking warlocks here, doesn't mean that the game is not being spoilt to a same degree by lack of lore in other places. Hence I think the idea is absurd, because in a matter of months, we'll have same thing going on about players in the UD and we'll basically lock ourselves to playing characters via application only

I see good intentions in many people suggesting fixes here and I'm not taking any credit away from them, but the idea is just wrong. Grinders will be grinders and runners will be runners. If it's not one class than it's the other...

for that matter, there are acadamies and colleges of magic scattered all over faerun, and some of them do not even require fees if the student is talented enough. Some cultures (elves; red wizards of thay) actively promote the study of the arcane and said studies, in some cases, are easily available to most. There is a reason for Sun and Moon elves having Wizard as a favored class. And also let us keep in mind that a wizard's magic is neither as rare nor hated as the magic of a warlock.

And each and every character comes from such a school... Yes in those regions, the number of mages is higher than anywhere else if the academy has enough room to accommodate students, but sons and daughters of farmers would be far more useful in the fields and not doing nothing away in some school...

Also to many, magic is magic. Specialist will tell a difference and we can have hatred coming in from there - fair enough. But the way it is now, it's like with lock specialists. They put one point in the skill and take 20 - bazigna! Open/You're a warlock, die on my pitchforks.

Well, if they're Fighters or something, there's not as much lore involved. But there are PLENTY of classes that are just as lore-heavy as warlocks, I agree. *nod*

Even fighters need to show respect to mages in Sshamath and similar respect to females. That's class independent.

Application, fine.

Chance of perma-death, no thank you.

Servin wrote:

Well, if they're Fighters or something, there's not as much lore involved. But there are PLENTY of classes that are just as lore-heavy as warlocks, I agree. *nod*

Even fighters need to show respect to mages in Sshamath and similar respect to females. That's class independent.

Sure, but we were talking about class-related lore issues, not area-related lore. I think we should keep the two issues separate.

I understand what you're saying, that enforcing lore with respect to classes might lead to enforcing lore with respect to everything else. But that's an extreme scenario that I don't think will happen, even if we make Warlocks application-only. I mean, it didn't happen when we made RWs application-only.

And each and every character comes from such a school... Yes in those regions, the number of mages is higher than anywhere else if the academy has enough room to accommodate students, but sons and daughters of farmers would be far more useful in the fields and not doing nothing away in some school...

well, this doesn't change the fact that wizards/sorcerors are more common - and less feared and reviled - than warlocks.

They put one point in the skill and take 20 - bazigna! Open/You're a warlock, die on my pitchforks.

The problem with such point, though, is that even a character with an average INT score of 10 can easily remember how an eldricht blast looks like after he sees a warlock shooting one and someone tells him "see that? That is a trick that only a warlock can do".

Apart from that, well, warlocks are supposed to be hunted down by angry mobs/paladins/whatever. Sometimes I wish it could happen here. That would make definitely more sense than all the warlocks there are around that go blasting and bossing/trolling/threatening people without even bothering to conceal their nature

You guys are suffering from a similar disease to one we're having in the UD, where a non-drow thinks they can insult a drow. Similarly, a warlock goes shouting on the fields who is he and what's he doing. The way it is dealt is that within the city if it's overheard by an NPC, the DM takes action whether on the spot or later on with screenshots.

If you hear a warlock running around like that, notify a DM and let the Flaming Fist deal with that. If the DM's won't action that because they feel no need (and not because they're engaged in an event), well than I feel myself privileged. But that's how it should be. If necromancy and dabbling with undead is a no-no, than so should warlock magic be (on the surface). You should report any ignorance of NPC's so you won't feel as much as a problem.

That would be your fix.

But I fail to see why should I be taking a penalty by group responsibility over something I never did with my warlock character.

The problem with such point, though, is that even a character with an average INT score of 10 can easily remember how an eldricht blast looks like after he sees a warlock shooting one and someone tells him "see that? That is a trick that only a warlock can do".

Yes you're correct, it's just it's never going to happen really, because the one who knows that already would scatter, there and then knowing it's the feared warlock


ETA: For the record. Out of all my character bio's for submission (three in total) none got ever approved. And on the other hand I hear I'm doing great RP. Application class? Or DM friends only?

Yes you're correct, it's just it's never going to happen really, because the one who knows that already would scatter, there and then knowing it's the feared warlock

my cleric is the first one to warn her friends about what a warlock is and how to recognize one. She isn't much scared of them either, but maybe it has something to do with her smoking 5 of them already in the past months.

But I fail to see why should I be taking a penalty by group responsibility over something I never did with my warlock character.

because it's getting full of warlocks whose rp has the same credibility of the Gargamel you are using as your avatar. SADLY.

Servin wrote:You guys are suffering from a similar disease to one we're having in the UD, where a non-drow thinks they can insult a drow. Similarly, a warlock goes shouting on the fields who is he and what's he doing. The way it is dealt is that within the city if it's overheard by an NPC, the DM takes action whether on the spot or later on with screenshots.

If you hear a warlock running around like that, notify a DM and let the Flaming Fist deal with that. If the DM's won't action that because they feel no need (and not because they're engaged in an event), well than I feel myself privileged. But that's how it should be. If necromancy and dabbling with undead is a no-no, than so should warlock magic be (on the surface). You should report any ignorance of NPC's so you won't feel as much as a problem.

That would be your fix.

But I fail to see why should I be taking a penalty by group responsibility over something I never did with my warlock character.

The problem with such point, though, is that even a character with an average INT score of 10 can easily remember how an eldricht blast looks like after he sees a warlock shooting one and someone tells him "see that? That is a trick that only a warlock can do".

Yes you're correct, it's just it's never going to happen really, because the one who knows that already would scatter, there and then knowing it's the feared warlock


ETA: For the record. Out of all my character bio's for submission (three in total) none got ever approved. And on the other hand I hear I'm doing great RP. Application class? Or DM friends only?

People.. poke the DMs IG about checking your biography and don't wait for it to be automatically done.