Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

grymhild wrote:am I the only one concerned with putting class specifc feats like weapon specialization into items?

maulofthetitans55 wrote:You think you would sell your Wicked Union for gold because someone can buy a comparable Light Hammer or Mace? Come now.

Thids wrote:Where are the scimitars?

grymhild wrote:isn't oocly muling gold and items across PCs a form of metagaming?

why not create persistent ig storage instead?

Steve wrote:

Karond wrote:If value increase was the sole goal, then limiting gold...

Holy crap...you just admitted TheVoid and I are correct in our economic theory!



Still...Karond, you are awesome for building Epic NPC Merchants, but c'mon...what you are selling/trading is exponentially better Stuff, than your QC Approved NPC Merchant wares. That just shows that grinding/looting + persistence is far more productive than saving up Coin to buy from your NPC Merchant. The RIG is Great...unless your Horde is actually from DMs granting custom gear.

Enchanting has the capability to satisfy any Build or Player need, and though your NPC Merchants give awesome Lore-based items, that really isn't what Players want. They want flexibility, and customization.

And that Ras coded a system already...what really is stopping that from getting in game, except the Will?

Mendoza wrote:But getting back on topic.... I think Steve summarized the argument for an Enchanter quite nicely:

Steve wrote: Enchanting has the capability to satisfy any Build or Player need, and though your NPC Merchants give awesome Lore-based items, that really isn't what Players want. They want flexibility, and customization.

grymhild wrote:am I the only one concerned with putting class specifc feats like weapon specialization into items?

Thids wrote:I would much rather have the entire loot table, along with all the epic items, available in the shops than open the can of worms that is the crafting system.

Karond wrote:

Thids wrote:Where are the scimitars?

Scimitars are cavalry weapons. If you're looking for popular weapons, what about halberds, spears, battleaxes, warhammers, shortswords and daggers? For this itemset, I read through this list, and focused accordingly where it made sense (Didn't see it reasonable for a small gnome to carry a wide assortment of warmaces or any large weapons). But eventually all kinds of weapons and armor should be covered. If people are frustrated at the slow pace, they're free to lend a hand.

mrm3ntalist wrote:

Thids wrote:I would much rather have the entire loot table, along with all the epic items, available in the shops than open the can of worms that is the crafting system.

I would too. It is not the "safe" way to do it though, at least concerning QC. It is better to include less used types of weapons and not extremely powerful, monitor their impact and then add more. It is generally better to put something in and increase it than put a lot in and have to take them back.

The good thing is that the autoupdater issues are resolved ( Thank you Duster!!! ), s things will begin t be implemented. Its only going to get better from now on

mrm3ntalist wrote:Personally, if the choice was a persistent storage, or use the resources and dev time for other features, I will always go with the latter.

Karond wrote:I've not denied that it will increase the value of gold, but where you and TheVoid are wrong is believing that it will solve the issues at hand.

maulofthetitans55 wrote:Arbjorn is the best merchant on the server without a doubt but that doesn't change the fact I've never purchased a single item from him.

M3nt wrote:Steve, you have been a very active and demanding HDM, especially regarding QC and developing issues. How close to implementation did you bring crafting enchanting? How easy was to come up with a theory to fix the economy? How easy was to implement it? * rhetorical *

M2nt wrote:Here come Karonds vendors, where while they wont solve the servers economy problem, they provide a good starting point for us to build on. The players can actually spent millions on Vendors so the curve where the gold begins to lose value is 10+ times bigger thus maintaining golds value longer. If you continue building on this ( crafting, gold sinks etc ), then you have a much more functional economy. And the important part is that it can happen right here, right now.

Thids wrote:But see, this is what I don't understand. There are items already in the loot table, which means they are already in circulation and in use by various characters. What is there left to monitor in regards to those items? If those items are too strong, they are too strong regardless if they are in the shops or not. And if the philosophy that everything should be available in shops eventually is the new direction for the server, in regards to shops, then how is it fair that something that is deemed too strong by the QC and the staff is readily available to whomever is lucky enough to bash the right chest at the right time? Are we in for a purge of the loot table and another round of grandfathered items? I'm genuinely asking, because from what I've noticed there has been a trend of nerfing certain properties on items (like steadily moving away from 1d6 elemental damage on weapons towards 1d4 as the standard).

Aspect of Sorrow wrote:

mrm3ntalist wrote:Personally, if the choice was a persistent storage, or use the resources and dev time for other features, I will always go with the latter.

We had persistent storage up and going in about two hours at SoD. When I implemented object templating it reduced the amount of disk usage significantly by moving the objects out of the player BIC and referenced instead a single time, (Health kit x 20u x ~60pc vs 1), reduced reconnections (which fired onjoin scripts that adjusted depreciated inventories), and a fast to edit property for mass adjustment of item properties due to the single template fix. Though we gained all of those perks, player muling still happened on occasion; behavior of a bad habit seems to not fall away so easily.

Steve wrote:The reason why Enchanting, Expose Weakness feat, new Areas by tfunke, PrC updates or additions, Persistent Storage, and Bug Fixes like the Dispel Bug Fix have never been added to the Server—to date—is because of Luna. I could go on, in excruciating detail, but that was the past, and there seems to be an actual, new Future to BG—if Duster47 can make it happen. So many things sat at the doorway to completion and implementation, but if 1 person can simply squash any idea or issue because they themselves do not believe in it or do not have the Will to support it...then...you have our recent past on BGTSCC.

mrm3ntalist wrote:As Golem said, muling cannot be monitored, not without having 24hour dm presence and monitoring countless lines of logs. However, if you have a persistent storage system available we would be more than happy to take a look at it.

cham wrote:You know what would be cool? Imagine instead of static vendors you had small bits of loot table stuff available in vendors, changing every reset, and not in unlimited amounts. Idk if it's doable.

Thids wrote:(like steadily moving away from 1d6 elemental damage on weapons towards 1d4 as the standard).

• +4 EB on weapons and +4 AC on armors liberally applied, as anything else helps GMW/vestment/mage armor classes more than the rest, and it's the non-spellcasting classes that need to catch up in general. Naturally some armors of mithral material won't get much, if any bonus.
• +D4 on all weapons. Exceptions are large weapons and those with a base damage higher than D8 (katana, waraxe, bastard sword), getting D6 or D4+1. Less damage overall if it's an unresistable type.
• Massive criticals generally bigger on large weapons as well, since size matter.
• Care taken with materials. Alchemical Silver and Cold Iron should count as bonuses to a weapon, and in some cases even +bludgeoning damage is a DR bypassing bonus. Adamantine is of course ruled out entirely for weapons.
• D8 max bonus damage vs specific on all weapons, provided it's limited. Like, vs good, vs plant, vs constructs etc., and not vs evil. Rarely exceptions.
• On hit properties limited, and often substitute all or part of the bonus damage on a weapon. So, a DC16 daze 50%/3 rounds weapon gets less bonus damage applied usually (exceptions apply to merchanically inferior weapons, like sickles).
• Spells per day generally being offensive (with DCs), and buffs charges per day. People mostly want buffs since it mimics being a spellcaster, but the advantage of spells should generally belong with spellcasters. So no on adding all the good buffing spells as uses/day.
• +3 ability maximum, bonuses possible. Can be paired with +2 to another ability for particularly epic items, but not two +3 abilities on the same item.
• +10 HP generally as maximum, with very rare exceptions for more on otherwise clearly inferor items. Never above +20 though, as then it approaches the power of an epic feat.
• 5-10 DR vs elements, less on physical DR. 10-20% partial immunity, with up to 30% being rare exceptions. No full immunities, and spell immunities only applied to certain spells (low to mid level, always DC focused ones and typically spells that aren't very useful. It's mostly to drive up prices on items or to help a theme along)
• Level 7 slots maximum, but care needs to put here. Level 7 is the highest in the randomized system, but for the loot table the highest is 6 and most commonly 1-4. Some slots can generally be applied together on the same item, or in multiples, since they're seemingly less powerful. So, single high level slot, or several lesser ones. Arcane slots tend to be more powerful than divine ones of the same level. One can be especially lenient towards a class like the Spirit Shaman.
• +4 to skills maximum. Yes, there are a few items that break that but for the most part those are exceptions and doesn't have that big of an impact (like the gloves of swordplay, but grandfathered stealth gear is of course different). They're tolerable.
• Generally bridging the gap within reason when it comes to armor and weapons. That is to say, since hide armors are worse than most other armors, it's alright to give them slightly better enchantments to help promote them (with care, as druids are a concern). The same is true for weapons, generally giving weapons like warmaces, sickles and such slightly better enchantments than for example waraxes or scimitars. They typically won't get more bonus damage, but could get more enchantments, unresistable damage types, full bonus damage and on hit properties etc etc.