Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

[Moridin]

For if one cannot have someplace to store ones items that they do not want to sell to the merchant due to value, then what are they to do with them?

[Thorsson]

For if one cannot have someplace to store ones items that they do not want to sell to the merchant due to value, then what are they to do with them?

It's their choice. I don't see there being an inalienable right to store infinite items.

[Moridin]

For if one cannot have someplace to store ones items that they do not want to sell to the merchant due to value, then what are they to do with them?

It's their choice. I don't see there being an inalienable right to store infinite items.

So you are saying that even though some characters belong to groups with areas for storage, that they should not be able to store their items inside them? My faction tends to use a few mules to simulate our armoury and personal storage(rooms), which we are unable to put anything in due to how the server is.

[chad878262]

To give some level of understanding from my point of view as to this change.

I liked the item level requirements. However, I did not like the various bugs associated with them. My thoughts were basically that with items occasionally requiring a level higher than 30 to use, items that increase level requirement after using the appearance changer causing illegal characters and the fact that some of the best items you can get have a LR under 10, yet some of the less beneficial, but easier to acquire items had LR 19+.

Say what you want about twinking, pvp, or any of the various other issues, but the bugs associated with level requirements took up a fair amount of time to deal with by admin and DM staff. By removing LR all those hours can be put to use elsewhere, which I think we can all agree is probably a good thing.

[Moltrazahn]

Quicky question/thought!

... I am left to understand that certain people got items that were from DM events. Mythical weapons or armor that was very powerful, but could not be used duo requiring level 31+. Some had these items just because it was a sentimental item, others because the plot in question died of, or the item was never reclaimed.

If the level requirement is removed, does this affect all items universally. Like you click a button and all items with requirements are now usable, or was each item with requirements on the current loot table?

My only worry is that any of these mythical items of godhood would fall into the hands of people whom now had some holy avenger +50 .

Ofcause I realize that staff will notice such things and remove said item, and to use them in any situation when you could get cought (pvp, events etc) would be avoided by said people. But still.

There has been a real effort to narrow the difference between gear currently available and "grandfathered" gear from days past. And it is a great initiative, which I support. However I'd advise staff and players to keep an eye out for any Spoons with 1d10 to all elements or stuff like that!

Just my 5 cent

[Thorsson]

So you are saying that even though some characters belong to groups with areas for storage, that they should not be able to store their items inside them? My faction tends to use a few mules to simulate our armoury and personal storage(rooms), which we are unable to put anything in due to how the server is.

Does not item storage use system resource? Maybe less mules = better performance.

Should your snowflake be special? Most people probably know my thoughts on that by now.

[Thorsson]

Say what you want about twinking, pvp, or any of the various other issues, but the bugs associated with level requirements took up a fair amount of time to deal with by admin and DM staff. By removing LR all those hours can be put to use elsewhere, which I think we can all agree is probably a good thing.

Bugs are definitely bad. Was this the only solution? Could the solution have been made better by making other changes in tandem?

And should there have been community discussion BEFORE it was implemented.

[Thorsson]

... I am left to understand that certain people got items that were from DM events. Mythical weapons or armor that was very powerful, but could not be used duo requiring level 31+.

Were these people in QC?

[Moltrazahn]

... I am left to understand that certain people got items that were from DM events. Mythical weapons or armor that was very powerful, but could not be used duo requiring level 31+.

Were these people in QC?

No idea . Despite being one of the old-timers on the server like yourself (did we join the same day! O.o wicket man!), I do not remember 90% of the characters i've interacted with over the years. Also, I never look at login name. No need to associate a new character with an old one (which, thanks to my senile memory, is done! ).

However I recall seeing a bow a few years back that could one-shot a dm through the screen, into their actual head, and murderkill them. Items like that... I dont want to come across in any shape or form .

[Ithilan]

You forget us that easilly? Oh Molt, all the precious memories

I had hoped items of such properties were long gone and deleted. This is a reoccuring theme that is utterly demoralizing for many people and also begins the debate of favorism etc. which is derailing this topic

Im not sure if there are any unsaid reasons this change was made, but I can see from Chad's perspective that the maintenance part on our staff must have been frustrating and I think that alone makes it a valid change.

On the personal front I associate games in the FR setting with this gradual rise to power through both items and build progression, removing one of the factors does take something away from that and I agree with Thorsson that it is dumbing down the server.

If the argument is making it easier on lower leveled characters or new players, would it not be possible to make some of the more vital leveling gear like regen cloaks have no level requirment? Forgive my ignorance on how these things actually work, I am utterly clueless.

[Blackman D]

that would not be possible because of how item restrictions work no, there are properties that are valued way higher than others even tho they may not be too great, like SR is worth a fortune in its smallest available setting which gives it a high ILR but in terms of usefulness the level where it would actually be good is below the restriction and by the time you can use it now its useless

SR items is actually what finally set off the conversation, someones item bugged out with the lvl 61 requirement and had to get fixed, originally SR was just gonna get tweaked to cost less but the bug with the 61 ILR is not restricted to only SR items - so when the suggestion to remove them was made it kinda had the ground it needed to actually be followed through with

but so far nothing else that has been brought up in this thread aside from the pricing issue was left out in the discussion

[Moltrazahn]

You forget us that easilly? Oh Molt, all the precious memories

And I said some! I remember some people! I'm not lost yet!

I had hoped items of such properties were long gone and deleted. This is a reoccuring theme that is utterly demoralizing for many people and also begins the debate of favorism etc. which is derailing this topic

Demoralizing stopped! - And as for the above... I know that the staff in general are very careful not to pick favorites given the ethics involved... and nobody wants the can of worms that is the forum to explode -
Also, If we forget the matter of how powerful items came into the possession of said characters, and rather focus on the point of levels vs. power... the point still stands that people should help the staff uphold the rules of the server. If you see an illegal item, you report it. If you see a questionable item, you ask (Alternatively, you can ask the person with said item).

Teamwork is where its at!

[mrm3ntalist]

Do you want me to waste one of my days to level a character with no epic items ( following the item level requirements ) to reach level 16 in a day or two? To prove you that the claims that this change made the levelling easier are baseless? Before one could choose to mule level appropriate items to have higher AC than the mobs, SR20 from lvl2, or use consumambles and level really fast, or not do that and enjoy the levelling using items as they come.
Same thing now. One can choose to level really fast, or not do that and enjoy the levelling using items as they come.

Then in the course of this thread we heard claims that the QC does not represent the opinions of the playebase( ??? ), or that there should be a discussion first, because this affects the RP ( while in fact it is in the exact same state like before ) or even read comments about QC making desicions in order to gain an advantage for their characters - like the one post that was asking if it was qcers that had lvl31 level weapons... That is what you get to read in these discussions unfortunately. Nothing about the issue at hand.

I would like tio take this opportunity and inform you ( sic ) that the QC is not about representing the players opinions, nor being influenced by the dms/devs/players-that-would-like-to-have-a-say. We are given a problem or a suggestion, we put the numbers down, we identify the negatives and positives and based on those we try to make balanced desicions.

The QC team is very effective. Desicions are made every day through testing and thinking and discussions. Dont ask us to waste our time waiting for something. Sure, have your public discussions - you can do it even now - and after a month ( at best ) if you have made a desicion based on facts we will have no problem taking any changes back. We did it in the past, it will happen again.

[Moltrazahn]

Woah... mrm3ntalist.

Not OP relevant, but more to the post above.

Hidden: show

I don't hope you read the above as me accusing you QC of anything. As posted in other threads, I find great respect in you lot for putting up the time to fix, change, moderate etc. If my bad attempt at lightening the mood above gave this reaction, then hey, sorry about that. I was not aware I was adding fuel to an accusation.

Maec posted recently that people need to remember decorum on the forum (that rhymed!), and in that same regard, if you feel someone is directly attacking you or the qc (or accusing qc of foul play) then report it, or ignore it.

Many people complain, and don't understand how many man-hours it takes to do all these things. You lot ain't getting paid. In fact, nobody on the staff here is. However Don't let negative attitudes get to you man, your time is better spent then letting it get to you.

Keep doing what you do, your doing it great. And if you feel that the feedback people write ain't given in a constructive way, or keep in line with the ethical rules of the forum, then move on man.

There is a reason your team is called QC - Quality Control. It ain't just one person, it's several. One person having all the power to become a god of his character would be stopped. That is why we have Maec and the others, hell its why we have the player base to say if something does not work. Then you guys are on it!

And yes, in many threads, you will read a lot of things that don't always refer to the topic at hand. But then you skip over it, and don't let it get to you.

As they say, haters gonna hate.

[Thorsson]

There's been a lot of major mechanical changes on BGTSCC in a short time. This is a new approach - normally one change gets a chance to be bedded in and tweaked before another comes along. I prefer it like that. I don't know why there's such a rush at present.

Also I prefer significant changes to be discussed in open forum rather than behind closed doors. No amount of justification is going to change my mind on that. How this has been handled annoys me a great deal.