Suggestion: Remove all +1/+2 items from the Loot Tables

[Winthorp]

mundane crap like fixing my weapon

my bad
i thought we were roleplaying adventurers and such
certainly they don't have to deal with "mundane crap"

[chad878262]

mundane crap like fixing my weapon

my bad
i thought we were roleplaying adventurers and such
certainly they don't have to deal with "mundane crap"

Off topic, but this is not a really good way to present a point if you are truly interested in making a suggestion that you'd like considered.

Magical weapons are not supposed to need sharpened and are very difficult to break... Thus once you are about level ~4 or 5 it wouldn't be an issue any more...

RPG doesn't translate too life simulator. RP'ing eating, drinking, repairing weapons and armor, defecating or whatever else can be done just fine without requiring folks to do it every x number of minutes/hours/days/battles/or whatever else.

Point being, our characters certainly do have some mundane stuff to worry about, just as we do in our real lives. Doesn't mean there should be an in game mechanic forcing us to 'roleplay' all the stuff that we might be playing a video game to not have to worry about.

That is not to say your viewpoint is not valid, Winthorp. It is simply to say that other viewpoints are also valid. Thus the best way to get any kind of feedback on a given idea is likely to present actual ways that something like maintaining weapons and armor could be built that might be enjoyable for players. If it is just a clicky that if you don't remember to click every x minutes you have a y percent chance of your weapon/armor breaking that isn't fun, it's a punishment with no real benefit to gameplay. However, if you can come up with something that makes it enjoyable to maintain equipment then there's a chance other players will post more details around your idea, adding to it. Then if there is enough interest it is possible a Dev will take an interest and try to build something that realizes your idea. Just saying, that adventurers would have to worry about mundane crap isn't enough though...that can easily be considered as being handled "off screen" when the player is sleeping/working/maintaining their own weapons and armor IRL, or whatever else they might be doing when not in game.

[NegInfinity]

RPG doesn't translate too life simulator. RP'ing eating, drinking, repairing weapons and armor, defecating or whatever else can be done just fine without requiring folks to do it every x number of minutes/hours/days/battles/or whatever else.

For a moment I imagined a forum post with people demanding higher RP XP for pooping due to acting realistically here. Better not go life simulator route.

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Getting back on topic, I'd rather not have OPs suggestion implemented.Loot generator has been providing good rewards lately, and +1/+2 items are part of the fun.

[electric mayhem]

RPG doesn't translate too life simulator. RP'ing eating, drinking, repairing weapons and armor, defecating or whatever else can be done just fine without requiring folks to do it every x number of minutes/hours/days/battles/or whatever else.

For a moment I imagined a forum post with people demanding higher RP XP for pooping due to acting realistically here. Better not go life simulator route.

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Getting back on topic, I'd rather not have OPs suggestion implemented.Loot generator has been providing good rewards lately, and +1/+2 items are part of the fun.

Agreed.
It's fun to log in, play an adventurer on the sword coast, that's exploring, "butt kicking for goodness!", finding treasure, then talking with in game friends here and there.
Sitting there 'rping'... (aka mass typing paragraphs on end)... why have a 3d/iso graphical interface when you can get the same value from a chat room?

Want a game that makes you feel like you're working... try real life. Or Life is Feudal, or Wyrm Online/Unlimited etc etc.


and re item restriction reimplementation.
please fix storage first... then lets talk about 'holding items in reserve'.

[Winthorp]

RPG doesn't translate too life simulator.

agreed, i haven't really expanded my point because i got attacked for X, when i never wrote X

my point is: we need some kind of money sink and some way to make it so that, when you have gathered all the cool equipment, you still have some stimulus that's not only role-playing. Something to keep the economy "alive", to add a layer of fun for those who enjoy it, being a merchant to me is as much or more fun than going around in tunnels. A world like that of the Forgotten Realms would reward daring merchants, because of the intrinsically dangerous nature of traveling around the Sword Coast and elsewhere with precious stuff on you.

This specific incarnation of the FR, however, has a bunch of newbs and then a majority of lvl30 with maxed out gear and millions in gold. That's not enough to create a "living" economy. A continuous money sink of some kind PLUS the risk of losing the gear would achieve that. If you tell me that no, I want to log-in and not have to worry about losing anything and play make believe with my character, that's fine, I enjoy that too, but I think that adding layers of complexity would make the game more interesting.

And by the way, that's not only true for an economy, it would be fun to add in some kind of gambling system (easier than the cards thing that's already there ) based on maybe dices, or some kind of competition that costs a lot to enter but can give some good reward, aside from maybe some temporary title (best boxer this site of the sea of fallen stars or something, for a month, then a new tournament is held, or what have you), in short, adding money sinks that can give good rewards always works, because you create money scarcity and give people something extra to do, if they want to.

Role playing is good and doesn't have to turn into real life simulation, but creating some "mundane" thing that forces you to spend money is good to create an extra layer of complexity. Frankly, what is one going to do with millions and millions, if you already have all the best gear? Can't buy land or properties, can't invest it, can't really use it to bribe anyone...

[chad878262]

We've implemented a few money sinks that not many players have been willing to take advantage of. The Master Alchemist class can craft potions up to level 7 spells and up to Caster Level 30. Thus non casters could theoretically buff themselves up with Shadow Shield, Energy Immunity, Improved Mage Armor, Greater Heroism, Greater Magic Weapon (though capped at CL 16 or 19 so max +4), Deez's Repulsive Barrier (though capped at CL15, thus won't get the full 20%), etc. etc. etc. (throw in if you have a Druid or Cleric MA that you can make contact with for a slew of other good stuff...How about a low BAB/high damage character using divine power). Recently dedude also added bombs that need a rogue to prime them to get a strong DC, but can then be used by other characters.

There are of course wands and pack horses are coming too, so it isn't as if money sinks don't exist... Frankly if folks used Master Alchemist elixirs many melee builds could solo a lot of bosses.

Step 1, drink a junk potion or 2.
Step 2, eat Mords.
Step 3, quaff potion of ethereal jaunt followed by whatever other buffs will make the bosses attacks irrelevant.
Step 4, kill boss.
Step 5, grab your empty stein or wine bottle (so...profit?)
Step 6, brag how you solo'd x boss with sub-par build?

Point being, there are money sinks that actually can add value in area's at/above your CR as well as DM events. Very few players use them because 1-2,000 gold is too much for a single use item. So it's kind of a losing proposition sometimes to make more gold sinks...cuz they rarely ever will be used.

[Egg Shen]

Probably worthy of it's own topic at this point, as we are very far from both the OP's original thoughts as well as the thread's natural end-point.

I do believe we sorely need gold sinks, but I think just more and better consumables doesn't really cut it. The reason that people haven't traveled too far down the roads you mention above is because at this point, it isn't really needed for the server, and if we spend all that gold to acquire said consumables and all it does is allow a negative value killing of a dragon, then what's the point?

Our gold sinks need to have some greater in-character meaning or create something fun on the server that doesn't currently exist. Just more mechanical power that isn't truly needed to pwn the server is sort of what we already have.

[Valefort]

It's pretty true. Perhaps a dungeon with an entrance fee ? Some wizard sending you on the plane of xxx to retrieve something and needs some amount of gold to be able to send you there... for reagents for example.

It's not a big in character meaning for sure but that should be rather easy to do. The idea of hiring a small Flaming Fist company, or other mercenaries, was aired recently and it's certainly a good one but for it to be meaningful there is a bunch of work to do. Definitely keeping the idea on a backburner.

[PaulImposteur]

Opening up Fast Travel points from more areas definitely becomes a FAST gold sink. Also the dungeon idea is a really neat one. Could even do the old Diablo 2 Style merchants.

Where you buy unidentified items, that come with RIG stats. Identify after purchase to see what you got? I have a bit of a gambling addiction with video games, that'd definitely get me to drop the last few coins I have. Though I have very few..

[Calodan]

Where you buy unidentified items, that come with RIG stats. Identify after purchase to see what you got? I have a bit of a gambling addiction with video games, that'd definitely get me to drop the last few coins I have. Though I have very few..

I am sure Karond and AC81 would willingly spend their BILLIONS. Not a joke either.....Two of em got be hitting the billions.

[aaron22]

The pay to enter dungeon sounds like a really good place to add the >30 CR dungeon. Full bag of tricks needed.

Bring on that dracolich with shadow beholders

[NegInfinity]

my point is: we need some kind of money sink and some way to make it so that, when you have gathered all the cool equipment,

To be honest, gathering all the cool equipment may take a few years.

Normally the gold sink is a crafting system.
Sigil also had alternative possibilities such as ability to hire merceneries (a one time 24 hour henchman created from a consumable, sometimes few thousands gold worth, which is a lot for sigil), golem crafting and purchasing housing.

Also there is already a paid dungeon - the fire giant mountain. Don't forget that teleporting also costs money.

[Steve]

And if more gold sinks get created, EVEN MORE REASON to remove +1/+2 items in exchange for More Coin from Loot!!

I'm very pleased you all continue to prove my points necessity to be applied. Ya'll are the greatest! *intentionally DOESNT use a smiley*

[Calodan]

And if more gold sinks get created, EVEN MORE REASON to remove +1/+2 items in exchange for More Coin from Loot!!

I'm very pleased you all continue to prove my points necessity to be applied. Ya'll are the greatest! *intentionally DOESNT use a smiley*

+2 items sell for max gold with crap barter skills. +1 items sell for darned near max gold with great barter skills.....Not sure what point we are proving.....

[NegInfinity]

And if more gold sinks get created, EVEN MORE REASON to remove +1/+2 items in exchange for More Coin from Loot!!

I'm very pleased you all continue to prove my points necessity to be applied. Ya'll are the greatest! *intentionally DOESNT use a smiley*

+2 items sell for max gold with crap barter skills. +1 items sell for darned near max gold with great barter skills.....Not sure what point we are proving.....

+1 and +0 routinely sells for max gold with zero barter skills, if it has the right enchantment applied to it. Certain magical properties boost item sale value, and they are not tied to the item being +1, +2, etc.

Basically, this is the first time I can honestly say that loot system is working well and I like it. And I definitely wouldn't want current item roulette being replaced with boring gold.

Speaking of which, I recall Karond bringing up a point where certain items are very useful to newbies, despite being dirt-cheap and unavailable in shops. Like those +HP items.