Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

I'm barely playing at all anymore. The main reason is that I lack any purpose to do so. It doesn't feel like my character can make a difference or be impactful. For me the problem most likely boils down to the lack of player agency.

Somewhere along the way I also got disillusioned with the changes to mechanics. There were too many choices and decisions I felt were unjustified. So, my enjoyment stemming from building and comming up with new builds died down.

Not sure what relevance builds have on world changing. I suppose if you are saying you first lost interest due to the mechanical decisions, and then you also felt player initiative was lacking, that makes total sense.

Its hard for people to enact schemes and plots without feeling supported by others equally enthused.

Yeah, the two statements are seperate reasons as to why I'm relatively inactive.

Lack of player initiative is perhaps part of my problem, something I suspect might be a result of the limited player agency. Then again, I suppose the server is built around an environment more controlled by DM's than players. So, maybe my expectations on the server are wrong.

Kaeldre,

Yes and no.

E.g. I created a character named Ardem Yay last year or so just to help encourage and spearhead a plot player side as it seems to have zero traction. And I got RP out of it and furthermore, after the fact before his death in an event.

DM’s do control a lot of what’s going on in the server that's highly impacting naturally, yes. But the players need and can find creative ways to help shape it too with them. It’s a two way system.

I feel like the best way to create meaningful RP is via creating stories for other characters your character interacts with. In turn they will influence your stories and come up with their own which allows you to get surprised further enriching your story/RP.

Relying on DMs too heavily seems to an issue for quite a few people.

It is reasonable to expect in a permanent, living world there would be cause to affect or change the environment, directly or indirectly via interactions with NPCs.

Sure just feels like often it's the sole goal... Dunno just gonna see how things develop for myself and maybe shut up about it for a while

I doubt for others, like myself, it is the “sole goal.” A ton of RP, storybuilding, adventuring, etc can happen with absolutely ZERO DM involvement.

But let’s talk the NEXT step. Let’s talk about that agency.

We are asked to create a Character that fits into a background and a world called Forgotten Realms. This wold has a yuuuge history. It has Lore. It has rules as well (for example, Red Wizards of Thay).

So from this base line formation of our Player Characters, is there not the eventual progression to interaction and involvement with the world they exist in?

And lest we forget: “...don’t metagame the NPCs” Server Rule.

Thus, the conundrum: how to “walk the line” between what a Player can do, and what a Player can’t do.

Many Players complain about how their PC’s requests made OOC requests get denied, and thus “agency” is halted. But there is the more insidious version where PC actions with the World are simply ignored, left without response, blatantly dismissed as worth “commenting on.”

That is agency, ignored.

So you see, it is totally possible to operate in a bubble on BGTSCC, but after a while you’ve seen it all, done it all “on your own,” and now you want to expand the realm of possibilities of RP.

But then you find out “your kind ain’t served here.” Yeah, get on the wrong side of people, and you’ll be inst-bubbled whether you like it or not. Cliques rule this Server, plain and simple. If you don’t mind a brown nose, you’ll go far.

Yes, I’m being harsh. I’d prefer to be compassionate, and most of the time I am (with most people, and definitely NOT with some people), because it’s pretty damn annoying to know that one can try and just be a dedicated IC RP’er, but OOC bullshit will rule the day every time.

So it’s little wonder people coming to BGTSCC with quality interest, check out with a quickness.

Pointing out the problems is one thing, and it makes one feel better. Proposing solutions, however, is much more constructive isn't it?

While I don't entirely agree with your points, I do agree with them to some degree. I have had characters reach a brick wall, whether it be NPC or PC related, and we lack effective tools to go beyond them. Some of it is mindset, some of it logistical.

I would be interested in hearing what you may suggest, aside from the overly idealistic/unrealistic that we usually banter about here. Extra points (and a continued open thread) for keeping in impersonal and fact-based.

Note as a moderator - these topics can easily go sideways toward finger pointing and hand wringing. Lets keep this one effective, please.

Steve wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:24 pmYeah, get on the wrong side of people, and you’ll be inst-bubbled whether you like it or not. Cliques rule this Server, plain and simple. If you don’t mind a brown nose, you’ll go far.

Yes, I’m being harsh. I’d prefer to be compassionate, and most of the time I am (with most people, and definitely NOT with some people), because it’s pretty damn annoying to know that one can try and just be a dedicated IC RP’er, but OOC bullshit will rule the day every time.

So it’s little wonder people coming to BGTSCC with quality interest, check out with a quickness.

Doesn't sound harsh to me. Sounds pretty damned accurate, in fact.

Preamble: The following is not me calling any individual players/groups out, this is just me calling it like I see it.

The sheer amount of OOC(and to some degree, meta-info) that current players seem to be engaging in, whether it be in game, or on discord, totally astounds me. And cliques are a great vehicle for that. I know a half dozen players that are so wary of being meta-gamed, that they are even reluctant to log on. And the OOC never used to be this bad. Don't believe me? Keep an eye out for any PVP bout, and you will be privy to a spamming of green-text in the aftermath, the likes of which you've probably never seen.

I cannot fathom how players who engage in frequent OOC or meta-info sharing do not realize how much they are shooting themselves, other players, and the overall quality of RP on the server, right in the ass. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, meta(and OOC) is a poison. Actually, I'll take that one step further, and just call it a cancer.

Kaeldre wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:05 am Somewhere along the way I also got disillusioned with the changes to mechanics. There were too many choices and decisions I felt were unjustified. So, my enjoyment stemming from building and coming up with new builds died down.

This is fair. IMHO, the nerf-bat might have been swung at a few too many classes. And I think it's fair to lay the blame for that, mostly, upon the shoulders of the player-base, and not the devs... yup, you read that right. If it weren't for entitled players having build/mechanics-inferiority complexes, and complaining about this or that being OP, that nerf-bat might have seen a lot less use.

Cliques are not really a problem on the server i been on nor is ooc/meta bullsh*t anywhere near as big a problem as it is here. The players there tend to be more... mature... then here sadly. Alot of the bull that happens here is minor there and it is one of the reasons i now prefer there to here. There is just too much crap being thrown around here ooc and ic and it has gotten old. The server has stagnated and its beginning to show as people are getting fed up and leaving for greener pastures. It is a shame but that seems to be the current course BG is taking.

Planehopper wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:17 pm I would be interested in hearing what you may suggest, aside from the overly idealistic/unrealistic that we usually banter about here. Extra points (and a continued open thread) for keeping in impersonal and fact-based.

True, positivity, even if futile, is the avenue to take. Yet positivity can exist in critique, when the evaluations or the observation stated is generated to create a better form.

In this case: how does the Server exist to support Players’ RP? We are all here essentially for the experience of taking the temporary role of Fighter, Cleric, Thief or Mage, in a Setting creating to make this archetypes Live.

One aspect I would offer can bring BGTSCC to a better place is to do whatever it takes to reverse the course of less openness, less communication, more private and “behind the veil” management of the Server.

When I started on BGTSCC about 10 years ago, Luna, TheVoid, Charraj, Maecius, heck, the DM Team in general was much more open, communicative, supportive and engaged with the Playerbase. That helps IMMENSELY!!!

Another aspect I’d offer to increase retention on BGTSCC is less grandiosity and more relatable/intimate experiences between DMs and Players, experiences in Events and SMALL campaigns. Nothing burns out Players AND the DMs like the Server Campaigns.

Last aspect I’ll offer is this: just give Players more rewards for Role-play. You want better/more RP? Reward it, even when it is mediocre, because the more appetizing it is for Players TO TRY, the more/better they will try!

I mean, it’s kinda dumb but, we play games for the pleasure, which is a reward. Funny enough, in this NWN2 on BGTSCC, you can actually receive more or less tangible rewards! Holy crap, it’s true!

And PS: Players can give other Players rewards as well (just not XP!). Yes, I’m saying help others to play better/more through “being there” for others, and when that isn’t enough, share your digital treasures!

And if you’re thinking “Hey Steve, why not share this with Admins...?” Well, you’re right! And I have! Hi Zanniej and Miasmata! Christmas is almost here!

Hey Steve, really like that post, sorry if I poked you a bit harshly earlier. *Thumbs up*

Player agency is the most important thing, this is damaged by people trying to protect status quo, their personnal frienda and ooc relationships defining how one reacts IC, but people are afraid yo talk about it because then you get punished.