Comic: The Economic system and why Karond is so rich...

[maulofthetitans55]

I am going to give you an answer, though I hate to do it. The reason why Enchanting, Expose Weakness feat, new Areas by tfunke, PrC updates or additions, Persistent Storage, and Bug Fixes like the Dispel Bug Fix have never been added to the Server—to date—is because of Luna.

I could go on, in excruciating detail, but that was the past, and there seems to be an actual, new Future to BG—if Duster47 can make it happen. So many things sat at the doorway to completion and implementation, but if 1 person can simply squash any idea or issue because they themselves do not believe in it or do not have the Will to support it...then...you have our recent past on BGTSCC.

Finally someone acknowledging the real issue here. Doesn't matter if we all make vendors if it takes months to add each one. This is a problem that's been festering for seven years. Taking seven years to fix it is not a realistic solution.

You know what would be cool? Imagine instead of static vendors you had small bits of loot table stuff available in vendors, changing every reset, and not in unlimited amounts. Idk if it's doable.

Good idea but not practical. It would just reward whoever can run to that merchant the fastest after reset.

It's definitely unfair to allow DM rewards to circulate with D8 negative damage and D6 acid damage on the same weapon, when most people can't even find a D4 weapon and the current DMs refuse to give out D8+D6 equipment. Not everyone agree with that though, but it's my personal stance.

Agreed, this is a huge part of the problem.

As a number of people have stated: new merchants will NOT fix the problem. The only solution proposed that will effectively fix the currently broken system is somehow allowing players access to all items in the loot list (which some have pointed out as extremely difficult to pull off) or implementing an enchanter NPC.

While new merchants are nice, I think most would rather see those resources allocated towards a solution that would actually fix the problem.

Yes. It will take years for QC to approve the amount of merchants this server needs to make gold meaningful. Karond's single merchant took 3 months to add and was still nerfed. Is anyone here willing to make an enchanting system for bgtscc? If so are any of the current staff still hindering this from happening?

[Ithilan]

It's definitely unfair to allow DM rewards to circulate with D8 negative damage and D6 acid damage on the same weapon, when most people can't even find a D4 weapon and the current DMs refuse to give out D8+D6 equipment. Not everyone agree with that though, but it's my personal stance.

Agreed, this is a huge part of the problem.

That will always be a factor so long as item rewards are available through participation in events. And at the risk of stepping on someone's toes, I will just say that I think this is the essence of NWN communities problem. It may seem like favorism to some and not to others, but it really is.. each time a DM has to reward someone they risk invoking jealousy in others, yet people should be rewarded for their efforts and participation.

And we can not expect DMs to dedicate their lives to this hobby, just because someone feels unfairly treated or isnt available in the "DM hotspot". I think the server population covers pretty much every time zone on the planet and the staff is generally centered around the north american time zones, making it a struggle for certain players to be available for their content. So it is a reoccuring issue.

Also as previously stated, the balance is changing as the staff is as well and in the past some items have been given out with immense power, that is creating a reoccuring debate. But the solution is not giving everyone items of this power level, as the module in its current state does not offer that level of challenge such item power is meant for. I cant present a solution, but in honesty it does not bother me that someone got a really strong item a long time ago, so long as I feel the overall character power is moderately the same as the challenges they are presented with.

[maulofthetitans55]

That will always be a factor so long as item rewards are available through participation in events. And at the risk of stepping on someone's toes, I will just say that I think this is the essence of NWN communities problem. It may seem like favorism to some and not to others, but it really is.. each time a DM has to reward someone they risk invoking jealousy in others, yet people should be rewarded for their efforts and participation.

And we can not expect DMs to dedicate their lives to this hobby, just because someone feels unfairly treated or isnt available in the "DM hotspot". I think the server population covers pretty much every time zone on the planet and the staff is generally centered around the north american time zones, making it a struggle for certain players to be available for their content. So it is a reoccuring issue.

Also as previously stated, the balance is changing as the staff is as well and in the past some items have been given out with immense power, that is creating a reoccuring debate. But the solution is not giving everyone items of this power level, as the module in its current state does not offer that level of challenge such item power is meant for. I cant present a solution, but in honesty it does not bother me that someone got a really strong item a long time ago, so long as I feel the overall character power is moderately the same as the challenges they are presented with.

DM's giving out powerful items isn't the main issue. The problem is past DM's gave +4 weapons with +1d6 fire +1d6 cold +1d6 electric for a 1 hour event and current DM's give 2,000 gold for the same event. That's a 10million value reward versus 2k reward. These decisions also have an impact on the economy because it's yet another item in the system that will never be traded for gold. If it doesn't stay on the character it was intended for it should be deleted at the very least. Like 7threalms Sword of Balduran Karond recently traded :p

[chad878262]

To be clear duster JUST PUT A RELEASE THROUGH. I realize folks are upset about the lack of updates prior, but it really isn't fair to hold current VOLUNTEERS accountable to issues that have upset folks in the past. As has been stated, if you want more content faster you are free to donate your time and skills to help. QC, DMs, Area builders and developers all have lives too (school/jobs/family,etc) so a little patience is warranted regardless of the argument that "we've been waiting X years".

Anyone that works for a corporation and has
anything to do with project management, IT our development will tell you releases take time, lots of time. You don't just come up with an idea and plop it into production unless you want to get a lot of folks fired. Even with near limitless resources projects take many dedicated individuals months to get in to production. With or relatively limited resources we are working on those things that we can get in with prioritization of the community in mind. Is it fair top demand Duster push another release every month? Week? Day? I'm not sure how much QC stuff belong here and already have a wall of text so I'll stop by saying we are working on things, and comments are welcome, but it really isn't fair to blame Duster or QC for the previous lack of updates going in. Change has begun, more are coming.

[Aelcar]

I instead believe that NWN community's problem are players jealous of items, and not the items per se...

Go figure...

[maulofthetitans55]

I instead believe that NWN community's problem are players jealous of items, and not the items per se...

Go figure...

Karond has more high end items to lose then almost anyone and he brought up this issue to begin with.

Denial at it's finest.

[Merlaran]

The above quote is something I personally like. Less VFX, and moving towards a standardization. I've offered to to help define those standards with QC back when Novus was HDM, but got a no since the DMs would take care of it I was told, but nothing came of that so...

I would like to see more VFX, Showing of that magic is half the reason to have that magic . But i suppose i play DnD for the magical world not the Mundane.

[Maecius]

Please keep in mind that Luna's the reason this server even exists at the moment. The fact that Luna has a demanding life and job outside of the game does not take away from the fact that he's sacrificed enormous amounts of time, energy, and money to ensure that all of us have had -- and continue to have -- this place to play out our characters and our stories.

Duster47 has been positioned -- by Luna -- to enable content updates, and has released several already. Recently, as pointed out, Duster was even able to stage an area update without issues. This was a major breakthrough. After the holidays? I expect we'll see lots of new content.

While I understand that people can become frustrated, or simply burnt out, it's still important to keep everything in perspective. This is a free server, after all, kept alive solely by the love of its players and its volunteers. And while critical feedback is important, and absolutely can help those who volunteer their time to improve the server, it is also important to remember that they are volunteers. They are not being paid. They are literally doing everything they do for you and your peers and are getting nothing in return.

Heck, I'd guess that about half of our developers don't even actively play the game anymore. They only stick around to support the community they care about, and for the love of their craft.

So please just consider all of that before you decide to express your frustration with them in a public forum. They didn't sign up to be punching bags, and the only thing you'll accomplish by lashing out at them is making them feel bad. They should be made to feel good. There's a lot of other things they could be doing with their free time, but instead they're trying to give all of us a fun place to game whenever we have free time.

[mrieder79]

+1

Thanks for putting things in perspective. I am always impressed by the dedication and commitment of our staff.

[DM Dialectic]

Please keep in mind that Luna's the reason this server even exists at the moment. The fact that Luna has a demanding life and job outside of the game does not take away from the fact that he's sacrificed enormous amounts of time, energy, and money to ensure that all of us have had -- and continue to have -- this place to play out our characters and our stories.

Duster47 has been positioned -- by Luna -- to enable content updates, and has released several already. Recently, as pointed out, Duster was even able to stage an area update without issues. This was a major breakthrough. After the holidays? I expect we'll see lots of new content.

While I understand that people can become frustrated, or simply burnt out, it's still important to keep everything in perspective. This is a free server, after all, kept alive solely by the love of its players and its volunteers. And while critical feedback is important, and absolutely can help those who volunteer their time to improve the server, it is also important to remember that they are volunteers. They are not being paid. They are literally doing everything they do for you and your peers and are getting nothing in return.

Heck, I'd guess that about half of our developers don't even actively play the game anymore. They only stick around to support the community they care about, and for the love of their craft.

So please just consider all of that before you decide to express your frustration with them in a public forum. They didn't sign up to be punching bags, and the only thing you'll accomplish by lashing out at them is making them feel bad. They should be made to feel good. There's a lot of other things they could be doing with their free time, but instead they're trying to give all of us a fun place to game whenever we have free time.

This.

[Aelcar]

I instead believe that NWN community's problem are players jealous of items, and not the items per se...

Go figure...

Karond has more high end items to lose then almost anyone and he brought up this issue to begin with.

Denial at it's finest.

My sentence wasn't for the OP.

In case you haven't noticed, there are a few posts between the OP and mine.

You have no idea what "denial" means, and you're too frustrated at your equipment to even think clearly.

Good joke.

[Lockonnow]

Hail Luna

[Ithilan]

DM's giving out powerful items isn't the main issue. The problem is past DM's gave +4 weapons with +1d6 fire +1d6 cold +1d6 electric for a 1 hour event and current DM's give 2,000 gold for the same event. That's a 10million value reward versus 2k reward. These decisions also have an impact on the economy because it's yet another item in the system that will never be traded for gold. If it doesn't stay on the character it was intended for it should be deleted at the very least. Like 7threalms Sword of Balduran Karond recently traded :p

Well if that is the case I will just boldly say: The DMs that gave out such items are complete morons and should never have been part of the staff. I dont care if I step on someone's toes in saying so, they are definately to dumb to argue with any ways.

The module's power is not scaled to the point where such exceptionel and otherworldly items even remotely belong here. If people indeed have such items I would pray the staff is keeping a thorough eye on them and considering a future stance on these things.

As I dicussed with Rask a few days ago, there was a time when +6 items and trinkets of godlike proportions were available, these items do not belong on the server, and should all have been replaced ages ago with equivelant versions that are within the servers balance.

But it is not my duty to monitor or pass judgement on these things, just saying I remember worse times, when whole cliques were epicly equipt wrongfully and illegally, if a player has recieved an item in the past that is out of the power balance of the module or for instance, cant even be found any where in the module, then id be first in line to request its removal.

Now you can go on to slander me and call me jealous or what not, I really really am not, I just dont think anyone should be elevated to godhood and in truth that is what such item power does.

[Tinkererer]

If the server does not present a challenge commesurate with a +4 / 1d8 negative / 1d6 cold longsword, why not just exchange that item for one that is appropriate for the server now?

A DM could even turn it into a personalized event for that person. "So and so's sword is actually an ancient heirloom of X Planetar, and he'd like it back. He is willing to part with a lesser version for your act of goodwill, and also grant you a boon of his own power as thanks for your generosity."

So the player gets a +2 / 1d4 negative / 2 cold damage sword in exchange, 3000 xp, and a cool story to tell.

I understand that some people may not want to do this because "muh itemz!!!", but if it's for the health of the server, I imagine only a handful of people would really refuse outright.

[Ithilan]

If the server does not present a challenge commesurate with a +4 / 1d8 negative / 1d6 cold longsword, why not just exchange that item for one that is appropriate for the server now?

A DM could even turn it into a personalized event for that person. "So and so's sword is actually an ancient heirloom of X Planetar, and he'd like it back. He is willing to part with a lesser version for your act of goodwill, and also grant you a boon of his own power as thanks for your generosity."

So the player gets a +2 / 1d4 negative / 2 cold damage sword in exchange, 3000 xp, and a cool story to tell.

I understand that some people may not want to do this because "muh itemz!!!", but if it's for the health of the server, I imagine only a handful of people would really refuse outright.

Exactly!! <3 +1