Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

[Ithilan]

What about putting a hard lockout on cross-classing FvS with Paladin/Blackguard? That will nurf the saves a bit and force them to get smite and proficiencies by other means? I'm just throwing ideas out there.. please let me know if its counter productive.

3 cleric levels.. water domain.. expose weapon and EDM. Saves will be above average any ways.. that aint the problem.

[mrm3ntalist]

What about putting a hard lockout on cross-classing FvS with Paladin/Blackguard? That will nurf the saves a bit and force them to get smite and proficiencies by other means? I'm just throwing ideas out there.. please let me know if its counter productive.

Thats the point of this thread. For you to discuss and throw ideas

[AlwaysSummer Day]

So it is the soloing performances that is the cause for this?

That's like the most minor issue. FS are the best in pve for sure. They are probably the best in PvP too. Their existence en masse is immersion breaking as well. But all of this means little to me. I can just ignore it and move on. The fact that events have to be skewed so heavily that it ruins it for non FS is the straw that breaks the camel's back. You may not realize it but it really does suck for those of us playing other classes when the spawns must have 50+ AB, 70+ AC, 30+ DR, and 10,000 HP just so a FS doesn't roflstomp it. We have a 3 by 20 rule for balance. Monk Druids are not allowed for balance. Why should the FS class remain so much more powerful than everything else?

[Boddynock]

Why should the FS class remain so much more powerful than everything else?

They exist because the line HAS to be drawn somewhere, and wherever it is drawn something will be at the top of the heap. If you think the line should be moved, that is one thing. But we don't need a call for nerfs based solely on something being the strongest at the moment, because afterwards something else will be the strongest. Do we the nerf that simply because it is the strongest?

[Mallore]

Hi a local newb! With just a favored soul thought, however just as a quick note I do feel I should play a Favored Soul just to stay on power curve. ((thats probably not a good thing!))

Anyways, couldn't the dms and players inforce a bit of rp to fix the class with out removing it?

Such as, favored souls should have to use their deities favored weapon. A lot of gods use weird stuff... and that may force some build restrictions and re balancing. Also it makes rp sense, infact probably a favored soul who doesn't use their gods favored weapon is kinda dissing their god.

Other small rp notes.. Shouldnt it not be allowed for a favor soul to party with folks who are the gods mortal enemy? This stuff is listed in the books.

Shouldn't a player lose favored soul if they do not proselytize their god? I mean full on legit turning people to their god, fighting its enemies and just generally argue with anyone with sever disagreement. Also sorry "im a secret" isn't cutting favored soul requirement in my opinion. the favored of say Cyric would be a known psycopath, or of shar would be known to at least dms and some players as actively converting other players.

Shouldn't Favored souls be restricted to the exact alignment of the god. These people are the embodiment of their lords, they are going to feel and act a lot closer then the average worshiper.

Also, if you dig a bit deeper, you can find the classes the gods are or the classes they favor. So shouldn't a Favor soul only be allowed to multi class into those classes? Oh and if there is a fear everyone would pick the same god to skirt this, then its no longer an rp issue and a gaming mechanics issue and by all means kick it.


I do not think you need to do any game fixing when rp fixes everything. Less chances of glitches.

[Rhifox]

Such as, favored souls should have to use their deities favored weapon. A lot of gods use weird stuff... and that may force some build restrictions and re balancing. Also it makes rp sense, infact probably a favored soul who doesn't use their gods favored weapon is kinda dissing their god.

Unfortunately this would just result in people picking the god with the best weapon, as happens with the countless istishia clerics who picked it solely for water domain and evasion.

[arakes99]

If anyone is seeing this as a lynch mob, then this conversation is going horribly, horribly awry.

No one should be getting punished, being punished isn't fun. But a lot of people feel punished by how lackluster they are next to the FvS. For whatever reason bards and druids don't inspire this same feeling. Who knows why? I don't and they are pretty close in terms of power.

This perception is really important, and I think what is driving the negativity.

For myself, if its really going to piss a great RPer or two off to make this change. I feel terrible for suggesting it, and I do a bit. But I also know a few wonderful Rpers who avoid BG because of the glaring imbalance this class presents because of our low magic, toned down PrC environment. I agree clerics/bards/druids and the like can all solo just fine, but not as easily as the FvS and especially not until higher epics. Try playing a character with no magic, and being a poor, new player who wants to RP a fighter. It's dismal in some ways, and not everyone wants to play the chosen of some god or other.

Enforcing RP on other people is never a good idea, either. It can be super upsetting.

[Mallore]

Such as, favored souls should have to use their deities favored weapon. A lot of gods use weird stuff... and that may force some build restrictions and re balancing. Also it makes rp sense, infact probably a favored soul who doesn't use their gods favored weapon is kinda dissing their god.

Unfortunately this would just result in people picking the god with the best weapon, as happens with the countless istishia clerics who picked it solely for water domain and evasion.

Yes true, but with everything else stacked in, it may not be an issue. When you have to use the classes, the alignment, the opinion of your god on who you can hang out with. A little bit goes a long way. and if you police for every circumstance you end up with a police state =)

even then if that all isnt enough, then the answer is pretty clear, its not about the rp anymore...

[The Whistler]

Remove FS. Allow existing FS players above a certain level to keep their characters. A biography could also be requested as validation. Some people might whine about the grandfathered characters, but there ain't no pleasing everyone in this situation. And the vast majority in this thread has asked for the class' removal.

You've got to crack a few eggs to make an omelette.

[Rhifox]

For whatever reason bards and druids don't inspire this same feeling. Who knows why? I don't and they are pretty close in terms of power.

Oh no, they do. I for one am very tired at how stupidly OP druids are, at least. But FvS get the hate not only because of the power, but also because of the class concept being so special and mary sue. It's a case where both the mechanics and the class lore come together to make something that feels ridiculous.

[arakes99]

I think that's what I was trying to get at Rhifox. At least with a druid you are changing shapes, and bards have to RP musical ability. FvS are just...better.

[Jepop]

For whatever reason bards and druids don't inspire this same feeling. Who knows why?

You don't see a bunch of dragon druids running around unlike favoured souls.

[Snarfy]

I'll admit I'm not a fan of FS, but I'm even less of a fan of nerfs. Especially ones that force players to RcR(much like the update did) or change their RP.

The PvE content on the server has been scaled towards optimized builds and mechanics for a long time, and a fair number of players tend to gravitate towards power over RP concepts, so I think any mechanical nerfs would be a bit redundant since those types of players will just move on and try something equally pwn-a-riffic. Meanwhile, the players playing FS because they enjoy the RP aspect of it will get the proverbial kick in the teeth and have to adapt via RcR or otherwise. Then again I am far from the authority on FS's, and I rarely encounter them IG.

Out of all the commentary in this thread so far, the only one I half-agree with was mrm3entalists suggestion of changing the class description. But even then, players of FS's would have to tailor their RP in some way.

In summary: Bleh.

[Akroma666]

For whatever reason bards and druids don't inspire this same feeling. Who knows why?

You don't see a bunch of dragon druids running around unlike favoured souls.

You will if they are forced to RCR because the class was removed or nurfed to harshly.

[Jepop]

For whatever reason bards and druids don't inspire this same feeling. Who knows why?

You don't see a bunch of dragon druids running around unlike favoured souls.

You will if they are forced to RCR because the class was removed or nurfed to harshly.

Not too sure about that. Druid rp also has a way of keeping people away.