Suggestion: Add Mystic Theurge class...

[Almarea90]

I would allow to reach max CL on one of the two but not on the other one and limit the spells of the secondary one to lvl 5 otherwise it would be weaker than taking 4 cleric levels with practiced spellcaster and progressing as wizard for the remaining levels. If we limit CL on both it would put people who focus on wards at disadvantage compared to those who just blast with a huge amount of spells. Also if someone has UMD they can already access divine / arcane spells through scrolls and potions while having max CL on their main spellcasting class.

[DaloLorn]

Considering the current levels of dispels, if this class cannot get higher than 20 CL on both spell progressions then it would be quite alright.

Well, the crudest MT implementation I remember hearing about was "10-level class, gives full spell progression to both caster types". Assuming a 10/10/10 split, Practiced Spellcaster could bump that up to 24 on one or both classes, and Blood Magic (if applicable) could bump it up to I think 26. I wonder if you could make a class give negative caster levels, so that you get full spell progression but not full CL progression... that could be interesting.

However, most people seem more concerned by the notion of taking a 15/5/10 split, or possibly even mixing in a couple of Hierophant/Archmage levels for Spellpower, allowing up to CL30 in one progression while still retaining the ability to cast 6th-level or even up to 8th-level spells from the other progression at CLs up to 21.

For my part, I find the diversity of spells much more enticing than keeping them undispellable, which is why some of the suggested Spell Synthesis picks look so fascinating. It's that sort of thing that led me to experiment with warmages when they were implemented on Ravenloft: Within their specific niches, they had wizard-grade flexibility blended with sorcerous spontaneity in a way that neither wizards nor sorcerers could match, at the cost of being completely incapable of doing anything outside those niches. (Combust, for instance, is a spell that sees a lot more use on a warmage... )

[Almarea90]

I personally would like for my character full cl on wizard as it makes more sense RP wise since she focuses on wards it wouldn't make much sense they suddenly become weaker in her main class. Also it makes much more sense if the clerc class that has been taken after is weaker. But yes the ideal would be to give the chance of personalising it and making the cl dependant on which other classes you progress with. Failing that I guess it would be up to the Devs.

[YYA]

Anyhow, not to burst anyone's bubble or anything... But has this server fixed the stock NWN bug when it comes to Sorcerer and Spirit Shaman PRC spellcasting progression? You know... you take a level of Spirit Shaman, then go Sorcerer to open up Eldritch Knight, ARcane Scholar, and then you take another level of Spirit Shaman and all of a sudden all those PRC levels give you access to Spirit Shaman spells and caster levels.

I guess this is an attempt to see if stating obvious NWN2 facts is still banned on this server.

[mrm3ntalist]

Anyhow, not to burst anyone's bubble or anything... But has this server fixed the stock NWN bug when it comes to Sorcerer and Spirit Shaman PRC spellcasting progression? You know... you take a level of Spirit Shaman, then go Sorcerer to open up Eldritch Knight, ARcane Scholar, and then you take another level of Spirit Shaman and all of a sudden all those PRC levels give you access to Spirit Shaman spells and caster levels.

I guess this is an attempt to see if stating obvious NWN2 facts is still banned on this server.

This was fixed years ago

[YYA]

Well, Divine Power no longer gives BAB but +8 to AB, so even if you make use of Augment Form to make some kind of Sorcerer/Favoured Soul Gish, your Polymorph BAB will be closer 21 than anything else. SO what was the Nightwalker strength score again, 38, 42 when buffed with Bull's Strength?

21 (BAB)
+ 11 (Strength)
+ 8 (Divine Power)
+ 4 (Greater Heroism)
+ 1 (Haste)
+ 3 (Divine Favor)
= 48~

It will work against the server, but the question is, which spellbook contains the more dispellable spells? Thanks to the Polymorph changes you can pop in and out of shapes, and re-apply things like damage reduction and regeneration, as for most buffs Polymorph allows those things to transfer over. It is a boost to polymorphing gishes, no doubt, but is just a strong build among other strong builds where part of the strength can be dispelled by a moment's notice.

As for some actual offensive spell casting build, even if the suggested PRC just adds +1 to both spellcasting classes such Sorcerer 6/Arcane Scholar 4/Spirit Shaman 10/Mystic Theurge 10, if one gets Epic Spell Penetration and two Practiced Spell Casters, one could be casting offensive spells almost as if he had 30 caster levels in both spells, at least against spell resistance. Actual caster level would be at 24 for both, but since offensive spells have damage caps it is not such a big loss. So spam away those Improved Empowered, and regular Maximised spells. There is a niche for that blaster master kind of roleplay/gameplay, a lot of AoE effects too. Could be fun.

But anyhow, most balance concerns seem to have melted away before my eyes, as far as server changes are considered.

[cosmic ray]

A cleric 10/wizard 10/theurge 10 would have CL 24 for both arcane and divine spellbooks. In other words, it would be trash on BGtSCC because of the insanely absurd dispel spam, having a 30% chance of losing each ward.

And people would want to nerf it during development?

[Almarea90]

Or max CL in one of the two and a lower cl in the secondary class. You still get strong wards in the primary class and utilities in the secondary one plus domains. I think max CL for both is too op but maybe getting max CL in one and something like 20 on the other one should be doable?

[DaloLorn]

A cleric 10/wizard 10/theurge 10 would have CL 24 for both arcane and divine spellbooks. In other words, it would be trash on BGtSCC because of the insanely absurd dispel spam, having a 30% chance of losing each ward.

And people would want to nerf it during development?

Alas, most people are more interested in builds that maximise CL in one class or the other, with the other spell progression being icing on the cake.

[Almarea90]

Unfortunately as things stand now it is not feasible to ward without max CL due to the dispels. If someone focuses on wards will necessarily have to sacrifice cl on the secondary class.

[YYA]

The greatest boon of spellcasting classes is the lack of item dependancy, you can cast spells for AC, etc. With a Mystic Theurge, if you go for that even split, you need to get items just as the non-magical Warrior or Thief would, and once you have your AC from items instead of spells you can freely allocate your two spell books to offer either recastable immunities, endless summons, or curious number of offensive spells. Hence my previous comment about Sorcerer/Spirit Shaman/Mystic Theurge/Arcane Scholar.

And if you are required to have 3rd level casting in both classes, even if you focus on a primary spell book with cleric as your secondary spell casting class, your primary spell casting class will sit at caster level of 29 unless you also go for a class that offers 'Spell Power' such as Red Wizard, Shadow Adept, or Blood Magus. If we look at a Wizard 5/Cleric 5/Mystic Theurge 8, it cannot get Archmage or Hierophant because both PRCs require 7th level spells, which the build would acquire only at level 18, and bring itself into violation of the 3 by 20 rule.

And once again, with the dispel fixes, changes done to Divine Power -- Mystic Theurge is a fun addition to whoever wishes to play it. But not really a be all and beat all power creep.

[Almarea90]

It was never intended as a power creep. At current a wizard can take UMD and use consumables and mechanically do the same thing. RP wise this won't do for those who want to RP a clerical path. This class offers the chance to do so without going 15/15 or 26/4.