Upperdark

[Planehopper]

Just for the sake of argument at this point:

Menzoberranzan is technically in the Upperdark. So defining an all encompassing rulebook based on the topography of the Underdark isn't exactly lore appropriate either. There would be varying levels of hostility depending where exactly in the Upperdark you are.

We are discussing the Upperdark areas on our server. The PVP rules are an OOC construct that are delimited by area in the module. Saying that Menzo is in the upperdark means nothing in that regard, as it isn't on our server and so has no bearing on the OOC rules related to PVP. "The Upperdark" is being used as a term to describe the transition areas on our server that adhere to standard (not KOS) rules.

And yeah, what NegInfinity says about dwarves really solidifies the current rules. I had forgotten about them. Arent the Zhents technically in the Upperdark here as well? I mean, at that point surface races actually have as much or more business than drow, right?

[NegInfinity]

And yeah, what NegInfinity says about dwarves really solidifies the current rules. I had forgotten about them. Arent the Zhents technically in the Upperdark here as well? I mean, at that point surface races actually have as much or more business than drow, right?

I believe there are at least 3 surfacer outposts in the area, either faction or race based, versus one combined drow+duergar outpost (or are those separate? I forgot). And then there's svirf town.

Those outposts are probably generating surfacer traffic, so yeah, thinking about all that, there's really no reason to claim that the area belongs to drow, and it mostly matches description of area "where the races usually meet", as it is described in FR Underdark book.

So... yeah. Current rules match the situation and lore perfectly.

I only wish I remembered all that while the thread was still on the second page.

[DeepFriedMoose]

Thank you Pimple and Neginfinity for your responses. I learned about reporting such shenanigans too late to do anything about the ones already, but will strongly consider it in the future.

RE: ambush, assassination, etc -- if someone refuses to interact with you, how does that work? The complaint is a character zooming around OOC (?) looting/grinding. If they refuse to interact with you, does that violate PvP rules? (Understanding that assassination is DM approval, and somewhat removed from "normal" PvP).

[7threalm]

the underdark has a very bad poplulation, issue way back, the upperdark was a solution to offer some players some additional underdark rp. I think it has been pretty successful I know one guild that have truly benefited from it and also a few cults.

The pvp thing is bound to happen cause players don't know the rules, and all that. I wouldn't let that it get to you, before its was like 3 players trading teleport runes to get back and forth, I can prolly name a few players that actually know how to get through the old way to the underdark and trust me taking a party was damn near impossible.

Instead of thinking like a northern drow when you come into to contact, try and think like a sshamath drow, what can this surfacer offer in terms of trade and prehaps magical power

you gotta also understand sshamath is a quite different city then most drow cities- this isnt the north or near mezo, what they care about is trade, and magical trade at that, if that comes from surface races they will deal with them, they even have surface elves living there, or other surface races.

Sshamath is a moderately peaceful city (For a Drow city) and all races and intelligent creatures are almost welcomed in. The conclave as we already know are the cities power, made up of different feuding schools, all that make up the cities power. The city does consist of alot of slaves (Mostly all are lesser creatures and un intelligent one's) Slaves can be purchased in the Bazaar which these slaves (thousands) are contained in small magical glass cubes for display. Magic is considered a valued aspect within Sshamath and any creature capable of casting magic or wields it is to not be a slave under conclave law (exception to those that wish the city harm or have been banned or considered deadly). Basically Sshamath is a magic users evil paradise.

[Babuguuscooties]

Just curious... Is there some other way for surface races to make it to the UD without going through the caravan right outside of Darkhold? If not it seems kind of OOC for good-aligned players (especially paladins and such) to be using that path. Unless of course they are RPing out being disguised.

It just sort of occurred to me how lots of people want to go to the Upperdark from the surface, but no one has mentioned the route that I've seen people take. Idk for sure, but I doubt Darkhold would take kindly to paladins and clerics of any gods that oppose Bane showing up outside their doorstep.

[Sun Wukong]

You can get to Upperdark through the Ogre Cave in Troll Claw Fjord, and some other places too.

[Brother Bruce]

You can get to Upperdark through the Ogre Cave in Troll Claw Fjord, and some other places too.

The ogre cave and durlags routes take you to the underdark from what I remember. That's not to say you can't then travel to the upperdark from there, but I don't think there are other ways to the upperdark aside from darkhold as far as I know. If there are other ways I'd definitely be interested in learning them

[flipside43]

The ogre cave definitely takes you to the Upperdark, which can lead into the underdark.

[Brother Bruce]

The ogre cave definitely takes you to the Upperdark, which can lead into the underdark.

Oh man. Been so long since I've gone from surface to UD, guess that musta been changed some time ago and I hadn't noticed, thanks!

[Babuguuscooties]

So am I right that good aligned characters should only be accessing the UD via the ogre cave entrance? Personally, I don't think it matters all that much... but I'm not one who generally pushes for hardcore consequences in a medium magic/rp server. I am open to them, however.

[Tsidkenu]

Additional access points from Kraak Helzak & Durlag's Tower, as well as from Darkhold (caravan with no return trip).

[NegInfinity]

So am I right that good aligned characters should only be accessing the UD via the ogre cave entrance?

No. It is up to their character to decide.

However, I normally do not visit darkhold without a good reason, regardless of character's alignment.

Other routes may be available depending on your character's race.

[Babuguuscooties]

Additional access points from Kraak Helzak & Durlag's Tower, as well as from Darkhold (caravan with no return trip).

Do you mean from within Kraak Helzak itself?

[Tsidkenu]

Yep, go all the way inside. I can't remember if the central gate still requires a guild key (it is not supposed to any more, iirc).

[Nyeleni]

I think it is open to anyone (central gate) but the Kraak Helzak caravan is only open to dwarven chars. Unfortunately gnomes and earth genasi aren't included.