Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

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I like the idea of full 100% rebuilds, but I can see issues with full level 30 RCR being abused. Tweaking the RCR system to make it helpful for lower levels in particular would in my opinion be a very good thing. If nothing else, it would encourage new players to stay, allowing them rebuilds free of penalty. The server does have a lot of custom class changes and custom content.
I enjoyed starting from scratch, but I don’t think free rebuilds up to say level five would cause any damage. People who grind to RCR for their +ECLs will do so regardless of the rebuild percentage offered. Maybe it would be harmless higher still.

I think that 100% to at least level 5 – that’s level 2 for drow – would be excellent. I’m not sure how the % would best be distributed between where the 100% would stop being in effect, be it level 5, 10 or higher, and up to the cap. I suggest having the cap around 20 or 25. Keeping it at level 20 would make enforcing the 3b20 rule easier; raising it to 25 enables bypassing this, as someone (I forget who) pointed out.

Suggestion:
100% to level 5 (10 000 xp)
90% from 5 to 10
75% from 10 to 15
50% from 15 to the cap

I agree, as it was said many times exp is PAINFULLY hard to get. I love RP, I've done it all my life, but if there is one thing I hate it is 'feeling' I am going backwards, or feel forced to play a character I know is going to suck; but can do nothing because I sufer 50% if I want to change it.

Case and point, Manah was a Dex based monk before, every level up I knew I was screwing myself over; but I was already at 17 - did I really want to go back down to level 8 - 9? Hell no! What would I tell my friend?
"Hey Manah, want to come and help us take out some level 17 goblins!?"
"Er...I can't er... (level 8) I...broke my leg?"

How RP breaking is that?

Imagine if Microsoft word took 50% of your word content everytime you used its spelling error correct; a novel at 100k words word become 50k, how angry would that make you? So those players who were here for 5 - 8 years, is it fair to them?

The RCR to me, was a blessing - and a very welcome addition to me, I have heard many of my friends say the same (or similar) and many people I mule for have said the same too. We need to ask this: Who keeps the server alive? The players? Duh! - So is it really a good idea to slap them in the face when they make an honest 'wrong feat' or level up wrong? I bet the people who are agaist this are the ones with perfect level 30 toons, I bet you

As a few others have pointed out, the RCR has been a chance for them to re-make their characters so they can be happy with them; isn't that what RP is about, enjoying your characters, and RPing them?

The community is already very small - imagine a newbie leveling to 10, only to find out that made an error (it does happen) case and point, I rage quit 4 years ago because of this - I didn't want to start again; the RCR would have fixed this issue. Is that really what you guys want to be "hard core"? Fine! But don't punish us! 30k exp at 20exp a kill / 20 exp RP is painfully slow, you are rewarding my time and deadication by throwing it all in my face and saying: Oh? You took a bad feat? Too bad! Put up or shut up! Is that really the message we want to send to the community?

But trogers! You are supposed to know BEFORE building your character! Yeah? I have followed 'pro' builds to a T and they don't always work out - so you would force me to lose ALL that hard work because of that?

However..... I do agree, full-around-the-clock RCR is not the right way to do this; a 100% RCR upto 20, or 95% RCR to 90 / 50% 30 etc... etc... plenty of ways to do it, but 50% Thats just a huge slap to all of us.

OR

Go back to the 50% exp bot...and allow players who want to RCR to 'submit a request' to a DM for review so they can manually give them the exp refund or give it back to a 'new character' this means the DM can look out for things like name changes/class changes or any other things they shouldn't be doing and stop it before it starts.

This can be done in such a way that it stops people abusing it, heck a 98% or 99% RCR would work - and put off people spamming the hell out of it, or limit it to once per account?

trogers2 wrote:"Hey Manah, want to come and help us take out some level 17 goblins!?"
"Er...I can't er... (level 8) I...broke my leg?"

Done that once or twice...

trogers2 wrote:Go back to the 50% exp bot...and allow players who want to RCR to 'submit a request' to a DM for review so they can manually give them the exp refund or give it back to a 'new character' this means the DM can look out for things like name changes/class changes or any other things they shouldn't be doing and stop it before it starts.

I was just about to add something similar to my earlier suggestion.

Another idea is allowing requests for rebuilds beyond level 20. That doesn't necessarily mean they need to be incredibly well written, (aiming this at new or shy players,) just that some time and effort needs to be put in. It would allow staff to keep an eye on that people stick to the 3b20 rule, and it would deter people from using it too often. It would mean extra work load, though, so I don't know how keen they'd be.

trogers2 wrote:The players? Duh! - So is it really a good idea to slap them in the face when they make an honest 'wrong feat' or level up wrong? I bet the people who are agaist this are the ones with perfect level 30 toons, I bet you

Slap in the face? It's a game, games have rules. Games like this have rules to make things feel earned. What good is XP if you can just hand it around to any new character you want?

And you lose your bet. I am against it, and I have mostly level 2 to level 20 characters. I LOVE low level play anyway.

This sounds OK to me:
Suggestion:
100% to level 5 (10 000 xp)
90% from 5 to 10
75% from 10 to 15
50% from 15 to the cap

But I'd like better for RCR to go back to 50% for all, except in the case of storyline generated perma-deaths.

LuxA wrote:

trogers2 wrote:Go back to the 50% exp bot...and allow players who want to RCR to 'submit a request' to a DM for review so they can manually give them the exp refund or give it back to a 'new character' this means the DM can look out for things like name changes/class changes or any other things they shouldn't be doing and stop it before it starts.

I was just about to add something similar to my earlier suggestion.

Another idea is allowing requests for rebuilds beyond level 20. That doesn't necessarily mean they need to be incredibly well written, (aiming this at new or shy players,) just that some time and effort needs to be put in. It would allow staff to keep an eye on that people stick to the 3b20 rule, and it would deter people from using it too often. It would mean extra work load, though, so I don't know how keen they'd be.

Brilliant. Let's give the DMs extra work, rather than having them run events, etc. Open it to accusations of favouritism. It's a great idea. Or maybe not.

RCR is not the issue. As keeps getting pointed out, it's too damn hard to level once you reach a certain point. It's that which needs to change. RCR is just too open to abuse. It needs to give less than 100%.

LuxA wrote:I like the idea of full 100% rebuilds, but I can see issues with full level 30 RCR being abused.

I would like to remind that the spirit of original request was:
1. Allow easy reasonable tweaks in case you mess up at high level (high meaning 18+)
2. Allow easy way to roll out new character concepts by sacrificing old ones.
3. Make life easier for people with limited playtime (alright, you make it to level 15..20 once, and even thought it would take you few years, you won't need to bother doing that again, just keep rcring into new concepts)

Basically, I remember when I messed up skillpoint distribution and had to retake couple of levels (no rcr, just retake), or when I ended up triple-rcring a charter into itself due to some ideas not working out.

Stuff like this hurts the experience.

The reason why request was placed in the first place because people appear to be adamant about changing the xp rates.

I think it is a reasonable compromise. I also like earlier idea about 100% pre-20 rcr, with limited pre-30 rcr.

NeOmega wrote: Slap in the face? It's a game, games have rules. Games like this have rules to make things feel earned. What good is XP if you can just hand it around to any new character you want?

Rules are made by people, FOR people, have a purpose, and can be changed. The purpose of rules is supposed to be having fun.

As I repeatedly mentioned before, I do not understand why XP is being treating so differently compared to gold and items. Gold and item transfers are allowed. Xp, for some reason is not, erven though it is essentially the same thing - representation of time/effort you put into the server.

I agree... keep 100% RCR permanently. Maybe limit its use to once every week or month so the nexus is not constantly clogged by people using the feature.

NeOmega wrote: Slap in the face? It's a game, games have rules. Games like this have rules to make things feel earned. What good is XP if you can just hand it around to any new character you want?

I agree NeOmega they do have rules; but rules (like laws) can go a bit too far - You don't seem to understand the point I am trying to drive forward; if you take a wrong feat/follow a bad build - forcing us to take 50% hit to fix that is a huge debuff. You like to play low level characters? Great! But what if a feat you relie on got nerfed/removed or you took a wrong one? You can't say to me "meh, I'd just go back to level 15! No big deal" because I know you wouldn't be happy if that did happen.

But it is our fault for taking the feat right? We need to review our builds before we make them - Yeah, but as it has been pointed out - not all builds work out in reailty; that is where the RCR really shines, it gives us a chance to 'auto-tune' it - as many people have already done, and guess what? The server is much, much better because of it.

I see a lot of happier players, because of this, and happier players = better RP.

You make it sound like we are gaining exp out of thin air - do not forget we EARNED that exp, and earned it at a painfully slow pace.

Thorsson wrote:Brilliant. Let's give the DMs extra work, rather than having them run events, etc. Open it to accusations of favouritism. It's a great idea. Or maybe not.

As I said in my last post, 100% Around-the-clock RCR is not the way this should be done; there are many, many ways to do this in the right way, but 50% is too low. Favoritism is always going to play some part in the community, it is how people work - it is unavoidable. It is not a difficult request and would take the DMs very little time to do, but it is one of many, many ways to go about this issue.



I believe the reason people are so active now is partly due to the RCR feature - players are a lot happier, and feel 'safer' becauce of it - myself included; I was given the chance to fix my characters flaws, and because of that I am happier with Manah and I am a happier RPer. A few people I mule for in Nexus have also expressed delight in 'fixing' their characters by picking a better feat or changing some skill points.

Forgive me if this is suggested already. Too lazy to read through posts

Why not keep the 50% RCRs, once these update are sorted out and everything is working of course, but create a separate 100% RCR machine in a DM land.

A player can make an application for 100% RCR (in cases of permadeath, messing up skills, etc etc as to be determined by the DM team) to the DMs, and if the DMs approve it, then the player can ask to be sent up to the 100% RCR NPC (there can be a 1 way portal back to the OOC room in this room in DM land).

A player can only make an application once per one or two months, even if it is rejected (to limit the DMs getting overwhelmed by such requests).

This way, we could keep the 100% RCRs, and any potential abuse of the system it provides could be eliminated.

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In addition to this and/or separate from this, we could introduce a de-level/re-level machine, that takes away a set amount of xp and immediately gives it back.

This could solve those "I need to de-level and re-level to re-do my skills" or "I want a cool new feat/spell/etc that was introduced in one of those smaller updates". It would also make it so people don't lose as many items to muling errors.

Sheesh. It was only suggested 3 posts earlier.

Well...shoot. Consider my post a massive +1 to that person, then!

metaquad4 wrote:Forgive me if this is suggested already. Too lazy to read through posts
Why not keep the 50% RCRs, once these update are sorted out and everything is working of course, but create a separate 100% RCR machine in a DM land.

I don't think this has been suggested before (if it has, sorry I missed it), it is a good idea and could work actually - while also allowing some 'control' over the RCR spam, all the DM has to do is port them over, but even then it still needs to be limited; once per account maybe?

A wise man once said to me: "Everyone should be allowed another chance to put things right" and I think one full, free 100% RCR is enough to fix any flaws a player is not happy with.