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Re: RCRing to above level 20
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:29 am
by RaiderOne
What if the level range supported was say, 6-26 instead of 1-30? With a smaller level range there would be more areas playable for more characters and there is enough of a level range (20 levels) to play any character type.
Re: RCRing to above level 20
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:29 am
by Calodan
2. Higher level parties can drive out lower from an area.
The CR scaling only add up to 4 levels. While if you are a level 11 PC and in a level 8 CR another party comes through that is say level 11 as well then the CR scaling will engage and you may face up to a level 12 mob. I had this happen on my archer the other night. It was awesome fun. Mostly because I got a suspenseful message that said something was AFOOT! It was so immersive cool I am willing to say that the "PROBLEMS" you are talking about are actually FEATURES.......This server got way more fun and cool in the last 4 months. SERIOUSLY.
While we all argue about this a bit and or debate if you will. Please take a moment to read the server goals this year. There are some nice things in there one of them being making a XP POOL system that will take that approx. 10K XP you can get weekly in quests and allow you to get that XP however you please in the game world. I.E. Go quest and it will drain it that way or go do dungeon crawls. Or fish. Or talk about your feelings. Whatever suits you. I think that will really help a lot of the issue in the EPICS. 10K XP per week is no joke and also already part of the servers not wanting to lessen the time it takes. Remember that a good portion of the server does not do ALL the quests at any given time if at all. So when a server admin or dev says the length of time it takes currently with leveling ins good enough then we as players need to take into account that sort of thing.
Re: RCRing to above level 20
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:30 am
by Brother Bruce
Thorsson wrote:Brother Bruce wrote:Thorsson wrote:
2. Higher level parties can drive out lower from an area.
Tell me that neither of these things happen.
How is that cr scaling' fault. It won't scale up if a bunch of higher levels come along when low levels are in a dungeon.
No, but if the higher levels are there already the lower levels can't get into "their" dungeon. Maybe you don't see an issue with that.
It'll scale down. I've had an enemy be scaled up and the next few were surprisingly easy to kill, followed by a group wandering into me. We grouped up afterwards. on the flip side though I earned a lot less xp, but I didn't care about that, the company was a lot more interesting. Have you experienced the new dynamic scaling yet?
Re: RCRing to above level 20
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:33 am
by Valefort
The dynamic CR system is based on the lowest level PC in the area so every new creature spawned after that new PC enters in an area will take that into account. At worst the start will be dangerous for him.
Re: RCRing to above level 20
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:40 am
by chad878262
Thorsson wrote:
1. The sort of grinding parties that used to exist around the Lizardmen and still do around the Xvarts (and elsewhere) can now stay and grind longer.
Except that there is also a mechanic to have enemies run away, thus encouraging parties to go grind somewhere else...
Re: RCRing to above level 20
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:43 am
by Brother Bruce
chad878262 wrote:Thorsson wrote:
1. The sort of grinding parties that used to exist around the Lizardmen and still do around the Xvarts (and elsewhere) can now stay and grind longer.
Except that there is also a mechanic to have enemies run away, thus encouraging parties to go grind somewhere else...
Not to mention with scaling xvarts aren't the only thing to go after at any given time so there's more reason to be elsewhere in the first place.
Re: RCRing to above level 20
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:45 am
by Thorsson
Can't play at the moment, following surgery, but it does sound like the CR scaling works as well as it could. Still be dangerous for low levels already stepping up, but maybe a bit of caution will be good for them.
On the XP Pool; this is a system I have seen elsewhere. Wasn't over-enamoured, but I'm sure the BGTSCC implementation will be different.
Re: RCRing to above level 20
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:52 am
by NegInfinity
Thorsson wrote:
I thought it was clear that I was raising a straw man.
Dude, sarcasm does not transmit well over text. No body language and non-verbal cues, you know.
Re: RCRing to above level 20
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:53 am
by Brother Bruce
Brother Bruce wrote:chad878262 wrote:Thorsson wrote:
1. The sort of grinding parties that used to exist around the Lizardmen and still do around the Xvarts (and elsewhere) can now stay and grind longer.
Except that there is also a mechanic to have enemies run away, thus encouraging parties to go grind somewhere else...
Not to mention with scaling, xvarts aren't the only thing to go after at any given time so there's more reason to be elsewhere in the first place.
Re: RCRing to above level 20
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:53 am
by Touri
The RCR system is fine as it is. Also in my opinion it isn't really needed at all and I could live without.
The cl scaling messed up the pve balance. The server once had a really good balance but for now it is completly gone in my opinion.
@Calodan
I read the server goals and if I am honest then it scarred me a lot.
Re: RCRing to above level 20
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:00 am
by Dragonslayer
So, from what I've read (and please correct me if I'm wrong), there seem to be two camps:
1) People who hate leveling, and want RCR more often to benefit different builds and character concepts.
2) People who don't mind the leveling, and think RCR should be more limited because it's immersion breaking.
Because BG wishes to allow as many playstyles as it can, it can't really eliminate RCR/muling/etc. People enjoy playing like that, and BG believes that people should play as they want. But, those same people are frustrated by the somewhat difficult leveling process in their way that prevents them from reaching their 'perfect build.' Opening RCR up further would exacerbate the problem according to the second camp.
I know there have been discussions about splitting the server into two, but I feel like that'd just serve to divide the population for no good reason.
What if (and please, bear with me), the server allowed for two paths for a PC to take? For the sake of discussion, call them RP Path and Action Path. RP Path provides certain benefits that allow players to request an additional event per month (in a group, obviously), and get greater RP rewards for events, either mechanical or roleplay related. Maybe RP xp is tripled. Action Path players are given more RCR options, and allowed to mule items through a server process, not an informal one where they just leave items on the ground and pick them up (That will be forbidden).
Mechanically, this just means giving a token to characters upon their creation that give them access to each set of benefits from an NPC. It'd be a bit of scripting, but it'd safely give each player a benefit for their certain playstyle and prevent each group from giving each other the finger on threads like these. What's more, it doesn't prevent players from RP'ing or dungeon hunting, and allows them to do so together.
But if this has been tried before, just tell me and I'll shut up.
Re: RCRing to above level 20
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:09 am
by NegInfinity
Dragonslayer wrote:So, from what I've read (and please correct me if I'm wrong), there seem to be two camps:
1) People who hate leveling, and want RCR more often to benefit different builds and character concepts.
2) People who don't mind the leveling, and think RCR should be more limited because it's immersion breaking.
Yep.
Also, the way I see it, a character that is a result of a RCR, is less likely to participate in all kind of "influence building" stuff, and would be more likely to take a "passerby" role. However, a "passerby" characters are important, because they look the world feel more alive and diverse.
I also proposed (in the past) an optioanl permadeath token which would speed up leveling process BUT add risk of your character permanently dying as another option. The idea didn't fly.
The idea with token system isn't bad, I'm just not sure about naming it "action vs rp". Those aren't opposite to each other.
Re: RCRing to above level 20
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:11 am
by Thorsson
Touri wrote:The RCR system is fine as it is. Also in my opinion it isn't really needed at all and I could live without.
The cl scaling messed up the pve balance. The server once had a really good balance but for now it is completly gone in my opinion.
@Calodan
I read the server goals and if I am honest then it scarred me a lot.
Me too. Scarred for life, I am.
So what happened to the scaling? Have monsters got too hard, too easy, or something else?
Re: RCRing to above level 20
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:13 am
by Thorsson
NegInfinity wrote:I'm just not sure about naming it "action vs rp". Those aren't opposite to each other.
And the server is supposed to be an RP server. RP should be encouraged surely.
Re: RCRing to above level 20
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:22 am
by Dragonslayer
NegInfinity wrote:Dragonslayer wrote:So, from what I've read (and please correct me if I'm wrong), there seem to be two camps:
1) People who hate leveling, and want RCR more often to benefit different builds and character concepts.
2) People who don't mind the leveling, and think RCR should be more limited because it's immersion breaking.
Yep.
Also, the way I see it, a character that is a result of a RCR, is less likely to participate in all kind of "influence building" stuff, and would be more likely to take a "passerby" role. However, a "passerby" characters are important, because they look the world feel more alive and diverse.
I also proposed (in the past) an optioanl permadeath token which would speed up leveling process BUT add risk of your character permanently dying as another option. The idea didn't fly.
The idea with token system isn't bad, I'm just not sure about naming it "action vs rp". Those aren't opposite to each other.
Right, it was just for differentiating purposes. Neither group would be prevented from playing with one another, nor would one be excluded over another in DM events, etc. I just used the terms as an acknowledgment of certain playstyles.
Because at the end of the day,
you get to pick one. It's the players choice, and they should decide what they want more out of playing.