ToT patch (July 1, 2022) bug report thread.

[Kitunenotsume]

Going in or out of Word of Changing form, and with Power Attack activated, I see this massive information head shot dump whatever...bug no bug?!?:

I was seeing the same thing on logins, I suspect it has to do with Power Attack being deacitvated and reactivated after every Equip action, including those performed by scripts.
Might be cleaner to have the script disable PA once at the start, re-equip everything, and then recheck for activation after.

[Blame The Rogue]

question about athletics. it's a strength-based skill, yet subject to armor check penalty? can we reconsider this?

[Bobthehero]

Because the people who made DnD 3.5 decided that heavy armor should have all the penalties.

[Blame The Rogue]

well, sometimes those PnP creators got it wrong. i feel like this is one of those times

[Rhifox]

question about athletics. it's a strength-based skill, yet subject to armor check penalty? can we reconsider this?

No, sorry. ACP affects both Strength and Dex skills. We just never had Strength ones in NWN2 until now.

You can still easily maximize how far you jump (since a strength character with 20 points in Athletics and +10 Str bonus will never fail a max-range Jump roll), and you can consider that already a lifting of restrictions from pnp (as in pnp, plate wearers only move 20 feet per round, instead of 30, and thus could only jump 20 feet, rather than 30).

[Blame The Rogue]

i believe this is an errant decision on the part of the developers of PnP. we dont always follow PnP. we change it as necessary. i feel this is one of those times, PnP got it wrong. i am asking for a staff vote to change it, please. ty

[Rhifox]

i believe this is an errant decision on the part of the developers of PnP. we dont always follow PnP. we change it as necessary. i feel this is one of those times, PnP got it wrong. i am asking for a staff vote to change it, please. ty

Even if it wasn't pnp, it's common sense. Someone who is wearing full plate is not going to jump as far as someone that isn't, nor will they be able to climb as well, nor will they be able to swim as well.

Athletics = Jump + Climb + Swim. How many of these should someone wearing a full suit of plate armor do as well as someone wearing just cloth?

[Bobthehero]

For characters who can carry over 1000 pounds of gear, a 50 pound plate armor would be like wearing a shirt, at this point.

[Blame The Rogue]

IRL special forces marches for days in full gear and pack, to get to a fight, then fights in all that gear, so yes, it is possible. athletics can be done in armor. as for medievalish heavy armor, and light armor especially, is not as heavy and constrictive as many believe it to be. there's a very interesting video on youtube about agility in medieval full plate armor, with someone wearing full plate, literally tumbling and doing rolls

as for my request, i formally request staff to sit down, and watch these videos, as they are quite useful, instructive, and applicable, and talk about this, and take a vote please

edited to add video links:

[Flatted Fifth]

Elaborate parry is not working as it's supposed to in new update, getting deflection ac instead of ac bonus = class lvl when using parry or fighting defensive

[Rhifox]

IRL special forces marches for days in full gear and pack, to get to a fight, then fights in all that gear, so yes, it is possible. athletics can be done in armor. as for medievalish heavy armor, and light armor especially, is not as heavy and constrictive as many believe it to be. there's a very interesting video on youtube about agility in medieval full plate armor, with someone wearing full plate, literally tumbling and doing rolls

as for my request, i formally request staff to sit down, and watch that video, as it's quite useful, and applicable, and talk about this, and take a vote please

I am quite aware of how well people can move in armor, thanks. I am subscribed to practically every history channel out there, and I have watched, and shared, those videos you're talking about many times. No one is saying athletics or acrobatics can't be done in armor. That doesn't change that wearing armor reduces your mobility, which is the whole point of an armor check penalty. Climbing, jumping, rolling, swimming, and so on can be done in armor, but it is harder and more tiring in armor. That is a fact. That's the point of the ACP. If there is something that you would do better if you were not wearing armor, then that is something that has an ACP. Someone in full plate will never swim as well as someone who is not wearing full plate. Heck, even people just wearing a full set of clothing are advised to remove their clothes if you're ever in an emergency swimming situation, because clothes weigh you down. Ergo, full plate has an armor check penalty when swimming. Watch a video of someone swimming in armor. There's a Japanese traditional sport that involves swimming in armor, and again, while they can do it, they very clearly do not swim as well as someone who isn't in armor.

This is jumping/tumbling at 30, and the kind of thing you won't be doing in full plate.

We've gone full circle where instead of people claiming armor weighs 50 pounds and you can't get up if you fall down, now people claim armor is light as a feather and you can do gymnastics in it. Neither is true. Armor weighs you down. It tires you out. You can still move and fight well in armor, but that does not mean that it does not penalize certain physical activities. Again, that is the whole point of ACP, to reflect those penalties.

[Blame The Rogue]

i just want to be clear. my pc has max acrobatics/tumble, and kips up in mithral chainmail with a tower shield

as for athletics, are you speaking on behalf of the entire staff in this moment? this is something i humbly request; the entire staff discuss this, and take a vote on it please. thank you

[Rhifox]

i just want to be clear. my pc has max acrobatics/tumble, and kips up in mithral chainmail with a tower shield

Congratulations, you have a pnp mechanic that I personally think is dumb af but am not changing it because it's pnp design. Shields, and especially tower shields, should impose Dex caps and prevent tumbling/kip-up. That they don't is dumb af.

As for the armor, mithral chainmail is typically described as "light as a feather", and a fully optimized suit mithral chainmail imposes a -2 ACP penalty. So I'm not sure why there's complaints here. It affects mobility, but to a very negligible degree.

as for athletics, are you speaking on behalf of the entire staff in this moment? this is something i humbly request; the entire staff discuss this, and take a vote on it please. thank you

I can tell you that staff has generally been of a position towards nerfing Jump, rather than buffing it, to the point of getting it capped at 30 feet (instead of distance = check) and suggesting longer cooldowns. So I wouldn't hold your breath.

ACP affects Dexterity and Strength skills. We didn't have any Strength skills until now. Now we do. ACP affects Strength.

I'm not saying anything else on this. It is not a bug, and it's not changing.

[Winthorp]

Mechanical "issue" and a doubt clarification: the patch notes say that adamantine gloves do not work, but if I'm not wrong they do work for monks? Just not for other classes? If so, will they just stay removed or is there a plan to make them work in the future?

Thank you!

[Rhifox]

Mechanical "issue" and a doubt clarification: the patch notes say that adamantine gloves do not work, but if I'm not wrong they do work for monks? Just not for other classes? If so, will they just stay removed or is there a plan to make them work in the future?

Thank you!

They work for monks, yes, as the feat itself is hardcoded to check monk class (which is why it doesn't work for anyone else).

We are working on alternative means to get glove materials to work for other classes.