Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

c2k wrote:

Darksider_war wrote:Classes the druids excel against in pvp:

- Sneaks of all kinds

Really depends on the build. In a vacuum, I think you are right. But sneak builds are so versatile and they would, at worst, stalemate against a Druid.

I actually think its a stalemate for both sides most of the time for druids. If you play them right, you are can't be killed but you probably won't be able to kill the other guy.

Most sneaks rely on two things to survive: hips, and a lot of sneak attack dice. They generally have low ac, and their AB isn't that great, too. Unless they are specifically built for a druid in mind, a druid will eat them for breakfast and ask another dish 9 times out of 10. Not to mention those few deadly spells the druid has which seem to have been developed with sneakers in mind (you pro players know the ones I am talking about).

In all the occasions my druidess pvped a sneak, the guy dropped dead after a couple of rounds.

Darksider_war wrote:
Most sneaks rely on two things to survive: hips, and a lot of sneak attack dice. They generally have low ac, and their AB isn't that great, too. Unless they are specifically built for a druid in mind, a druid will eat them for breakfast and ask another dish 9 times out of 10. Not to mention those few deadly spells the druid has which seem to have been developed with sneakers in mind (you pro players know the ones I am talking about)

Your average sneak build has a max UMD, Expose Weakness and Epic Precision. Druids can't really hurt them if they know what they are doing.

However, like I said, Druids can be impossible to kill. (as breteas has proven)


Edit: Added Expose Weakness because it matters

c2k wrote: Your average sneak build has a max UMD, Expose Weakness and Epic Precision. Druids can't really hurt them if they know what they are doing.

However, like I said, Druids can be impossible to kill. (as breteas has proven)


Edit: Added Expose Weakness because it matters

Druids have creeping doom which is guaranteed to ruin the day of every sneaker unlucky enough to get caught into the storm of insects. Unless they are smart enough to know how to counter it.

c2k wrote:

Darksider_war wrote:
Most sneaks rely on two things to survive: hips, and a lot of sneak attack dice. They generally have low ac, and their AB isn't that great, too. Unless they are specifically built for a druid in mind, a druid will eat them for breakfast and ask another dish 9 times out of 10. Not to mention those few deadly spells the druid has which seem to have been developed with sneakers in mind (you pro players know the ones I am talking about)

Your average sneak build has a max UMD, Expose Weakness and Epic Precision. Druids can't really hurt them if they know what they are doing.

However, like I said, Druids can be impossible to kill. (as breteas has proven)


Edit: Added Expose Weakness because it matters

Druids are killed by a single Mordenkainen's Disjunction. As in...dead.

Molag Bal's WM/FB ground Breteas' druid to dust, as he posted a while ago on a similar thread. It's obvious, since 50 dmg x attack is still fairly consistend, and wands are really hard to deal with when you dont have consumables (like a shaped druid). Note that, if the Druid ever decides to shape back, he gets 100-0ed by the WM/FB instantly.

Druids can be played well (by Breteas, or Darksider, or any other competent druid player not mentioned) and can be played badly, like every caster. Aside from that, they DO have these limits in PvP. It doesnt detract from the class being unbelievably powerful in PvE and regular DM events, to be sure! Also, it has such a deep and complicated RP that it doesnt matter much, after all.

Aelcar wrote:

c2k wrote:

Darksider_war wrote:
Most sneaks rely on two things to survive: hips, and a lot of sneak attack dice. They generally have low ac, and their AB isn't that great, too. Unless they are specifically built for a druid in mind, a druid will eat them for breakfast and ask another dish 9 times out of 10. Not to mention those few deadly spells the druid has which seem to have been developed with sneakers in mind (you pro players know the ones I am talking about)

Your average sneak build has a max UMD, Expose Weakness and Epic Precision. Druids can't really hurt them if they know what they are doing.

However, like I said, Druids can be impossible to kill. (as breteas has proven)


Edit: Added Expose Weakness because it matters

Druids are killed by a single Mordenkainen's Disjunction. As in...dead.

Molag Bal's WM/FB ground Breteas' druid to dust, as he posted a while ago on a similar thread. It's obvious, since 50 dmg x attack is still fairly consistend, and wands are really hard to deal with when you dont have consumables (like a shaped druid). Note that, if the Druid ever decides to shape back, he gets 100-0ed by the WM/FB instantly.

Druids can be played well (by Breteas, or Darksider, or any other competent druid player not mentioned) and can be played badly, like every caster. Aside from that, they DO have these limits in PvP. It doesnt detract from the class being unbelievably powerful in PvE and regular DM events, to be sure! Also, it has such a deep and complicated RP that it doesnt matter much, after all.

I agree with Aelcar. Druids are still inhumanely powerful PvE-wise, and can even say their own in pvp, albeit not against just everyone. If you're really looking for a PvP machine, roll a wizard.

Only thing a well built arcanist should fear is another well built arcanist. Mord is the druids bane but there are quite a few other ways to destroy a druid as well. Just remember that whatever you shape into can be used against you *whistles*

Druids are boring

Remember: Tigers Howl!

breteas wrote:Remember: Tigers Howl!

Welcome back

Aelcar wrote:

c2k wrote:

Darksider_war wrote:
Most sneaks rely on two things to survive: hips, and a lot of sneak attack dice. They generally have low ac, and their AB isn't that great, too. Unless they are specifically built for a druid in mind, a druid will eat them for breakfast and ask another dish 9 times out of 10. Not to mention those few deadly spells the druid has which seem to have been developed with sneakers in mind (you pro players know the ones I am talking about)

Your average sneak build has a max UMD, Expose Weakness and Epic Precision. Druids can't really hurt them if they know what they are doing.

However, like I said, Druids can be impossible to kill. (as breteas has proven)


Edit: Added Expose Weakness because it matters

Druids are killed by a single Mordenkainen's Disjunction. As in...dead.

Molag Bal's WM/FB ground Breteas' druid to dust, as he posted a while ago on a similar thread. It's obvious, since 50 dmg x attack is still fairly consistend, and wands are really hard to deal with when you dont have consumables (like a shaped druid). Note that, if the Druid ever decides to shape back, he gets 100-0ed by the WM/FB instantly.

Druids can be played well (by Breteas, or Darksider, or any other competent druid player not mentioned) and can be played badly, like every caster. Aside from that, they DO have these limits in PvP. It doesnt detract from the class being unbelievably powerful in PvE and regular DM events, to be sure! Also, it has such a deep and complicated RP that it doesnt matter much, after all.

Agreed with both Aelcar and Darksider. A smart druid RUNS from a fight. They can do some damage PvP, but like I mentioned to Molag with PvP trials (while molag mentioned he was impressed with druid resilliance) I don't see a druid winning any fights vs other casters. If they do, it's poor handling. If they LOSE, it's poor handling too.

Druids are survivors, and even in RP ment to be self-sufficient. That does not mean they rule the world, but killing one should be hard, and them killing anyone (as per PNP RP ) should be hard for them too.

(just my take on druid combat )

That is why druids are able to survive so much. It's a core class skill. It's part of their RP, and it's the reason why they could (potentially) be dangerous PvP. Because in RP a druid would never act on a whim. Or attack anyone (Wisdom), they would consult a grove for a course of action, and act accordingly.

That is one of the few means a Druid can be dangerous PvP.
When he/she gets to the grove.
Because then, you're facing something I've never seen.
A collective of likeminded nature casters, with a verdict that something needs to be dealt with. Whether it be a person, or a situation.

But when druids act, they do not do so lightly.

Agreed with both Aelcar and Darksider. A smart druid RUNS from a fight. They can do some damage PvP, but like I mentioned to Molag with PvP trials (while molag mentioned he was impressed with druid resilliance) I don't see a druid winning any fights vs other casters. If they do, it's poor handling. If they LOSE, it's poor handling too.

Druids are survivors, and even in RP ment to be self-sufficient. That does not mean they rule the world, but killing one should be hard, and them killing anyone (as per PNP RP ) should be hard for them too.

(just my take on druid combat )

That is why druids are able to survive so much. It's a core class skill. It's part of their RP, and it's the reason why they could (potentially) be dangerous PvP. Because in RP a druid would never act on a whim. Or attack anyone (Wisdom), they would consult a grove for a course of action, and act accordingly.

That is one of the few means a Druid can be dangerous PvP.
When he/she gets to the grove.
Because then, you're facing something I've never seen.
A collective of likeminded nature casters, with a verdict that something needs to be dealt with. Whether it be a person, or a situation.

But when druids act, they do not do so lightly.

Aye Aye I second this. Druids are still very capable in PvP and I see them win quite often, even against arcanists because half of them don't know what they are doing. Against most other combos they still do very well. But they are not on top when it comes to a well played arcanist in PvP. Where druids shine is PvM and it's difficult to match them in that area. Amazing saves, high detection, great AC, and decent attacks along with all the HP and damage reduction spells they can obtain.

Let's not forget their best pve tool - an animal companion that has 60+ AC, 50+ AB, 15DR, 40SR, Multi attack, crit immune and (at times) 900 HP. Pretty handy.

AC81 wrote:Let's not forget their best pve tool - an animal companion that has 60+ AC, 50+ AB, 15DR, 40SR, Multi attack, crit immune and (at times) 900 HP. Pretty handy.

I'm not sure that's all true, is it?

Last I checked the dragon pets weren't buffed from their original state.

These are stats that are achievable with long lasting buffs (all except Natures Avatar which is 1rnd/lvl). You also need a reasonably lucky roll for the extra HP to get to 900, but still, it happens often enough. The real kicker is the multiattack. It ensures a lot of its attacks hit.

AC81 wrote:These are stats that are achievable with long lasting buffs (all except Natures Avatar which is 1rnd/lvl). You also need a reasonably lucky roll for the extra HP to get to 900, but still, it happens often enough. The real kicker is the multiattack. It ensures a lot of its attacks hit.

How does it get 15 DR and Crit immune though?