Needed Advice for a Necromancer build

[Deathgrowl]

No, no. That is the cheesiest build in existance. PvP monster when handled right.

But not really great as far as DCs go. It's a completely different way of playing a wizard.

[Ilron]

My gut feeling keeps telling me to take your first build. However I'll have to do it as a tiefling, since humans can't push 20 int at level 1. Would that build be any different for a tiefling?

Worst case scenario, if in the far future the build feels disappointing PvP-wise, I'll know where to look for the other build. The way I see it, one is focused on PvE and the other on PvP, but how good they are against their counterpart is unclear. I was told that there are necromancer builds effective both in PvP and PvE at the same time, but again - what they are is unclear as well.

[Deathgrowl]

For tiefling, same build. You'll just have 6 charisma instead of 10.

You could go human as well, nothing to stop you. You'll just have 2 less int so your DCs would be 1 point lower. If you'd rather RP a human, then take that. Besides, then you won't have to cope with the +1 ECL.

[Ilron]

For tiefling, same build. You'll just have 6 charisma instead of 10.

We're both talking about this build, right?
http://nwn2db.com/build/?187948

Because as a tiefling, I can have the exact same starting stats as in the build. No need to dump cha to 6. Also, how come the school chosen is "general" rather than "necromancy"? I'm fine with RPing a tiefling - I like them, so it's all good.

[Deathgrowl]

Because as a tiefling, I can have the exact same starting stats as in the build. No need to dump cha to 6. Also, how come the school chosen is "general" rather than "necromancy"?

If you look at the drow version, he has 10 charisma. If you switch to tiefling, you will have 6 charisma. Because drow get +2 charisma and tieflings get -2 charisma. The drow simply doesn't have a "dumped" charisma because he starts with 10.

And I choose General school because I like to have divination spells (which necromancy spec loses) available. That is mostly an RP thing, though, mechanically, you don't actually lose anything except Clairaudience/Clairvoyance from going Necromancy. See invisibility you get with Blindsight (transmutation) and Premonition you get through Shades (Illusion).

[Ilron]

Oh yes, of course they have 6 cha at first, but what I'm saying is that during character creation it's possible for a tiefling to have:

Strength 10
Dexterity 14
Constitution 14
Intelligence 20
Wisdom 8
Charisma 10

I'm too lazy to do the math, but I made it happen. Of course instead of investing 4 points to raise cha to 10, I could raise dex to 16 and con to 15, but I think the way it is he should be fine just like your drow, with the same stats.

6 cha is quite scary, at least for me, because I like all my characters to be at least moderately good in Intimidate, Diplomacy or Bluff(In this case bluff, since it helps avoid fights easiest when you're evil, and tieflings get +2 to Bluff as well).

[Deathgrowl]

Ah, of course. I forgot drow get -2 con, and tiefling doesn't. Right.

[Karond]

Bloodmage is OP.

For example, a human 6 Bloodmage, 10 Wizard, 4 Archmage and 10 Arcane scholar. Take the feats prodigy, practiced, extend, epic spell focus necromancy, spell focus conjuration, toughness, empower spell, skill focus spellcraft and 5 greater intelligence feats (start with 18 INT and max it). The Archmage bonus feats is spellpower I and II.

If you cast fox cunning, you'll then get a DC of 32+spell level for necromancy. This of course exploits Practiced Spellcaster, but it gives you great DCs in addition to fantastic metamagic capabilities and bloodscars. With arcane scholar robes or another item that grants spell penetration, you'll also ignore drow SR automatically. Plus, you get to be evil and stuff.

[Ilron]

Bloodmage is OP.

*hangs head in shame* I already RCR'd. Now it's a level 9 tiefling(7wiz/2pm). All the way from a level 15 human... *headdesk* Better than a broken build, I guess.

My intent is to be a pale master. So unless I'd go 10wiz/10pm/6bloodmage/4archmage, the build you suggest is not very doable. Not to mention that... as we have established, pale masters don't mix with blood mages well RP-wise... unfortunately.

Or! I could start over from scratch and the entire server would jump at the chance to power-level me to 15 in 2 days! =D

[Deathgrowl]

Not to mention that... as we have established, pale masters don't mix with blood mages well RP-wise... unfortunately.

That's just my opinion. I'm sure others will argue differently.

[Ilron]

That's just my opinion.

Your opinion made perfect sense. But I'd be happy to hear anyone outsmart it. For my own sake. *smirks*

[NegInfinity]

That's just my opinion.

Your opinion made perfect sense. But I'd be happy to hear anyone outsmart it. For my own sake. *smirks*

Well, there is a lore that suggests that blood mages are hated by necromancers. Mostly because blood is power of life (surprisingly), while necromancers prefer power of (un)death. They're technically opposites. However, this is not a strict requirement, and I already saw quite well done blood mage palemaster (char left the server, unfortunately). Basically, if you use those as tools for achieving your goals (in typical neutral evil fashion), then I see no reason why you can't use both.

You're willing to have a pale master that toys with the dead, but don't enjoy blood sacrifices? I mean, it's not far off in terms of evil. I suppose I'll wait for someone to join in on the thread to enlighten me about Blood Magus mix.

You're right. In degree of evilness they are both pretty high.

Both are not very "evil" by themselves. PnP palemasters can be neutral, while PnP bloodmages can be good (not the case with this server's blood magus which is somewhat homebrewed). Assassin, warrior of darkness are more sinister than both of those classes.

Regarding blood magus /pm mix, it depends on char. If your char is deeply fascinated with blood, it is unlikely to seek power over undeath. If it is deeply fascinated with undeath (even source book calls palemaster a necrophiliac, by the way), it is unlikely to seek power of the blood. However... a single mage can recognize power of both (bloodmage requirements is being resurrected in pnp, while palemaster requirements is lengthy contact with undead), and a powerhungry type can pursue both of those at once.

[Ilron]

That's an interesting take, Neg. But a mind-numbingly complicated task to find good reasoning to. I suppose that, as you say, a mage would have to step back from his obsessions and look at the larger picture to accept both life and undeath. Unless he has a dual personality or is so sadistic that he'd use these powers to torture his victims. The way I imagined it, the mage would drain his victim of life with blood magic and bring him back as undead with necromancy(and vice versa). Do you think PMs work with Blood Magus from a technical point, by the way? Like, if there's any effective build?

[Storm Munin]

The previous arguments make me think of the bad undead? mechanical henchman in Hellboy.

Replace mechanics with blood and voila.


Not sure on how great it would be but sorc/pm/BM/Divine seeker should be fun to play (if we ever got divine perseverance working).

[Aelcar]

Do you think PMs work with Blood Magus from a technical point, by the way?

Absolutely. It's actually one of the most powerful things you can build. You literally cannot be killed unless you go to the toilet, or die behind the keyboard IRL.