RP-Critique/Support/Self Monitoring Club

[Vesgar]

Thanks for the informative posts, it was a good read.
Hmm, but now i'm not sure about my own character then. I planned a weapon master with rogue, fighter and shadowdancer classes. Someone who (in the end of his training) doesn't care about the joy of battle, instead he lurks in the shadow, observing others and only use sheer force when somone's in grave danger, or there's no other options.
First i tried to make something like a "samurai" (sword saint would be too, uhm legendary ), but it's much more than a simple fighter/weapon master, so instead i planned something, that actually can pick the right time when to appear and fight.

Now the problem is, if you call barbarian/berserkers and fighter/weaponmasters already too strong, then my character would look like just another mere powerplayer. :/

edit: oh god, just read the champion of cheese thread, and now i feel like i should be ashamed about planning anything with WM -.-

[nuno2008]

I dont like to criticise other peoples builds any more then i like to have mine criticized but..

As for weaponmaster with daggers or short swords.. its possible the tanto or japonese short sword was extensivelly used during the Bakufu period as a assassins weapons due to its extremelly usefullness to fight in close quarters and its ability to block longer weapons with ease and allow for a quicker counter so double tanto.. or tanto dagger is entirelly possible.

However think of masters not as a way to power.. the greater the power the greater the awareness of the master has over his own ability. A martial artist of any type has a numerous amount of rules and tradition that he follows .. this is what makes it diferent from combat sports. So you could say that all martial artists are lawfull in their own way. So mixing it with rogue class for the sake of sneak attacks ... and sd to use trickery ah... i dont agree. No true master would do that the need for illusions or dirty blows is something that they dont do.

Think of a martial artist like a person who speaks thru his weapon be it fist or sword. If you use trickery and dirty tricks.. what would your sword say about your own heart?

If you want to mix something with rogue and shadow dancer i suggest duelist. Putting wm along with sd and rogue will most likelly be seen as a powerbuild I believe after what i said you understand why i said this.
But thats my opinion .. your still free todo as you will of course.

[Vesgar]

I thought about picking something else. For duelist i would need weapon finesse and small weapons. I don't like the idea as i would like to stick to my katana. :/ There's nothing else i could mix in and still keep my good natured katana using warrior. I can't care less about the sneak attack, i only need the rogue levels, so i could hide and only appear when i have to.

I understand your point, and it makes sense, but seems like from your point of view every single weapon master is a lawful character, like a samurai or a monk. But what about the ronins, or the ones who turned to be shinobis. They are everything but lawful. On the other hand, there are martial arts using trickery, like kung fu and some of their weapons, or anything that uses "fake" or tricky moves to catch tge opponent off guard. You could call that sneak attack. :p True, now i just want to justify my build, but meh, maybe i will just take more fighter levels instead. :/

edit: i found something weird ingame, maybe someone here could tell me how is this possible. A weapon with Selune's name on it, and only usable by evil. Maybe it's just me. /shrug

[nuno2008]

I think you have the wrong idea about "rounin" and " shinobi" .. probably given by the anime and hollywood productions.

First a " rounin " is not renegade a rounin was a samurai who lost his daimio " feudal lord". You have to understand that during the War period people died all the time and many times it wasnt just the soldiers the nobility died as well. When that happened the samurai that served the dead lord scattered and became "rounin" samurai ... or wandering samurai .. but once a samurai always a samurai. Most of the times they imediatly sought for a new lord to serve afterall "samurai" means " to serve" .. a samurai is a servant ... a samurai without anyone to serve would most likelly either go look and offer his services to another daimio .. or commit sepuko in other words ritual suicide by slashing open his stomach. I hope you understand that the LAW they followed had nothing to do with the law of the land ... all samurai served and followed the " BUSHIDO" the Code of the Warrior. Of course due to anime and poor productions they where made to look like vagrant criminal but the truth is quite diferent. Rounin are not or ever where Yakuza type criminals.

As for Shinobi. They too where always submited by the Law of their Daimio. The most notorious group served under the Tokugawa Shogunate. It was normal for a shinobi that failed a mission to end his own life in other words the shame was too great for him or her to continue living and if he did he would shame his entire family and group and all of them would be killed.... or his family or group would hunt him or her themselves to restore the lost honour in face of their lord.

Im sorry if this sounded harsh however .... the world then didnt work like " The Last Samurai " with tom cruise... or " Narutos Ninja Chronicles ...

I hope this cleared it for you lawfull as i said means to follow a set of laws self or
imposed by the Daimio. They where not good or evil such things have little do with reality. Very few samurai actually enjoyed war tho they practiced for it their wholle lives many where also poets , painteurs, sculturs, teachers , actors some of the greatest pieces of art of the time where made by samurai during the more peacefull times.

[Vesgar]

I'm well aware of that the ronin were samurai warriors without a master to serve. Of course it was "easy" in the warring age to find a new master, but it's true they were poor and sometimes that forced them to go rogue and steal for living or they ended up serving as assassins.

But you are right, i kind of mixed up the real world stuff with fantasy, so sometimes there is neutral between lawful and chaotic. :p

[nuno2008]

As i tought... you dont understand the concept.

Let me put it simple for you... the desire to live.. to survive ... by all means.. did not compute with a samurai. To a samurai Hounour came before everything else.. if Honour was placed at stake by living they would commit ritual suicide before staining their honour with theft or anything else. A samurai would willingly die before doing any of that. Ill give you an example " Soichiro Murasashi " was a very famous samurai many daimio would pay a LOT of gold for his skill with the sword directly or so he would train their personal armies but one day his daimio asked him to lead an assault on a vilage that did not pay its tribute to the daimio .. so he was ordered to "wipe it out" ... simple order ya? He could have just said yes and ran away and accept a job somwhere else... well wrong he took out his sword and impaled himself on the spot right in front of the Daimio.
Also there are many reports of samurai who where no longer needed by their damios ... like this

Daimio " Your services are no longer needed ... "
Samurai " If so allow me to end my life "
Daimio " So be it"

And they would kill themselves for nor longer being of use. Service and Honour was everything. Well atleast to the ones that where true samurai ...

This is hard to understand by todays mentalities that place life about honour or pride.

But as i said you are free to do a char by your own choices for your own amusement ... as i said this is a game its meant to be enjoyed ^^

Find a concept you like and play it

[Tahlisar]

Just one point to follow on.

I'm not a martial artist, but I have worked with weapons, and specialised in one weapon in particular. (L85A2 for anyone who cares)

I play my weapons master, not from the perspective of a person with a philosophical or metaphysical connection with his weapon that he is aware of. But from the perspective of someone who has grown attached to his sword as a constant loyal companion to the point where it has, quite literaly become an extention of his self.

(Mechanicaly, 17 levels of fighter before taking the prestigue class, during which he quite literaly used "The same sword". Not type, not size, the actual same sword.)

I see the "Ki" aspect, in this instance, less as a conscious act and more of a subconscious act. So, I don't use it often.

More of the veteran than samurai.

[nemectic]

I don't think you can really compare specialising in a Rifle, to specialising in a sword.

The final accomplishment of a Weapon Master, in my eyes, is their weapon being an extension of themselves. This just doesn't translate to ranged weapons, and is probably why Weapon Masters require a melee weapon.

And you said your character used the same weapon for 17 levels - How long was the largest amount of time you have used the same rifle? I've personally been through more SA80's than I can count on my fingers and toes. Of course, that's the limit of my counting, being an infantryman.

[Tahlisar]

I count the rest of my sections' limbs to get any higher. But we vikings pride ourselves on being above paras.

But I'm not comparing it point for point, I'm just trying to get across the different "feel" for the character.

Greater harmy through familiarity and innate understanding that, shall we say, instruction and conscious understanding.

[nuno2008]

Im glad you took so many lvls before going weapon master. It shows that you are aware of how hard it is for one to exceed the ranks of disciple and expert to achieve full mastery.

Theres nothing metafisical about Ki use it isnt science fiction.

Yes a master of a weapon sees the weapon not as an instrument but as a part of his own body i myself am pretty confortable with my fists sword or staff i wouldnt say i see my sword as part of my arm yet but... then again i dont see myself as a master.

And like nemectic said .. you cannot compare a sword to a gun. Ill be blunt ... anyone can point and squeeze a trigger better or worse it takes minimal training to do so since my dad was in the army i learned how to shoot when i was a kid. However someone half trained without devotion to the sword will be a danger to himself and his companions then to his enemies.

Its not better or worse its diferent... with a decent rifle you can snipe your foe from afar you dont even have to see his face. With a sword you have to get close and personal enough sometimes that you can smell his breath and look into his eyes.

Theres a saying from the founder of Aikido that goes by this " Any martial artist must be ready to take 90% of the oponents blow and stare death in the face at all times "

If someone points a gun at you and you have nothing yes your staring at death but you dont have to be close enough to smell your oponent. With a sword you will smell your oponent you will listen to his breath.. you will be splattered with his blood ... i hope you can see the diference psycological and pratical.

[Vesgar]

Hmm... you told me that, it's not possible to master anything all alone as it would be an expert on top. Being one with the weapon was one of the requirements of being a master. By using the very same weapon for years, fighting and experiencing how to use it efficiently, isn't that mastering it? Or is it just an expert level again, because effifiency is not the same as being a master of something?

I'm a little bit lost there.

[nuno2008]

Yes its confusing even to me.. thats why the ranks of experts outnumber the ranks of masters by ... very far.

What makes a master diferent from a expert... is a millenia old question that has boggled the minds of every martial artist for thousands of years.

I myself have not found the answer when i asked my master he merelly shrugged and said " ... when i started teaching"

I believe along the road of a martial artist comes a time of ... fulfillement of self lets just call it enlightment that sets the master apart from the expert.But then again even masters are ranked.

So i cant offer more then this as a answer.

A expert has complete control of his weapon ... a master has control plus understanding by combining both he can make something of his own from the teachings of his own masters.

More then this i cant tell you because im only a expert myself ^^

[sinsemilla]

Hello RP Club!

I know this is off the current discussion but as some of you know I am running a little player campaign. Maybe DM's will get involved from time to time that is up to them. But I want to stir up some player rp, so I started the Crusades.
I am following some rp of my own, trying to shape Maximus Angrius who as of this far is RP shaped by dm events and personal rp. So this Crusade is a part of that rp and a way for me to kick some rp out for others to join and enjoy.
Hopefully this little campaign will contribute to the personal rp of others as well.

However here is my idea on this but it will require a lot of support from all of you; if you are interested. I won't talk about it here as I want it to be all rp.
But I invite you all to get involved.


And Haber, my name is still not on the list.

[07paul87]

Yuz stoopid, hooman! No ones hurts 'da Bane! We's strongers!


hehehehe, I look forward to a lot of strife and conflict with your silly good-guy gang. Thur is definitely opposed, and Seril will be probably be gunning for your people since he was booted out of your church (twice) during your rally.

Ur'Grak will be indifferent, as always, and Hraligar will probably help out whichever side has more dwarves. I'm really looking forward to the next few days.

[Mustang]

Volomirror has heard of this crusade and witnessed the Banites actions first hand. Time to get some serious payback.