Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Pffff! Unarmed means you're fighting without arms, obviously! You're kicking instead!

And headbutting!

That reminds me the Black Knight scene in the Monthy Pythons' movie "The Knights of the Square Table"

I got it figured out:

(At +4 BAB) Unarmed Weapon Specialization = +2 damage
(At +8 BAB) Unarmed Weapon Mastery = +2 to all attacks & +2 damage

Are there any other fighter feats like this that my character can partake in at higher BAB's?

Most times I have to wait to lvl and be surprised by what's available for feats then...

thanks!

Ahku wrote:I got it figured out:

(At +4 BAB) Unarmed Weapon Specialization = +2 damage
(At +8 BAB) Unarmed Weapon Mastery = +2 to all attacks & +2 damage

Are there any other fighter feats like this that my character can partake in at higher BAB's?

Most times I have to wait to lvl and be surprised by what's available for feats then...

thanks!

AB is exactly the problem with pure monks. 20 monk/10 fighter is about the best you're going to get with a pure monk since you can pick up a bit of AB from greater weapon focus and weapon mastery.

Monk would be very balanced if they had high AB because right now if you go monk/cleric/sacred fist you actually end up with a much higher AB then monk/fighter, which is nothing short of tragic

AB isn't a problem with pure monks at all. A pure monk (doesn't matter if wis, dex or str based) will have expose weakness and many attacks per round to land hits. If people say that AB is a problem for monks, it's because they haven't played them enough or they have been built horribly.

Edit:
Also, damage isn't a problem either. Monks are quite powerful, it's just that no-one plays them except when they dip or when they use them with Sacred Fist/Cleric buffness.

AC81 wrote:AB isn't a problem with pure monks at all. A pure monk (doesn't matter if wis, dex or str based) will have expose weakness and many attacks per round to land hits. If people say that AB is a problem for monks, it's because they haven't played them enough or they have been built horribly.

Edit:
Also, damage isn't a problem either. Monks are quite powerful, it's just that no-one plays them except when they dip or when they use them with Sacred Fist/Cleric buffness.

Yeah except you don't start out at level 23...

Almost every melee build on the server has expose weakness + far better AB & damage. Expose only goes so far when your AB is mediocre and no HIPS. I mean you can stand there forever spamming Expose until your million attacks finally hit but by the time that happens even a low end fighter with a Scimitar has killed it ages ago.

Some people do go 11 monk/9 assassin/rogue with Kama's but I don't even consider that a monk anymore, it's more like a flurry rogue. I never said pure monk isn't playable but compared to it's melee competition it's mediocre at best.

I respectfully disagree. My main is a pure monk and kills things very quickly. He is currently level 21 after a recent RCR, so he doesn't have Expose Weakness yet. He kills quicker than my scimitar weapon master who is the same level. I've levelled him from 1, and never had a problem with damage or hitting things. At level 30, while hasted, he (and other pure monks) get 8 attacks per round, 5 of which come in at top AB (which is roughly 40). No other non-dual wield character gets that many attacks at such consistently high AB. They are NOT weak fighters, they are more versatile. Monks solo bosses and other areas that normal fighters struggle with due to their high saves and SR. Mages are generally the bane of a normal fighters life, not monks. Monks eat mages like kids eat fairy bread. But yeah, I hear this everywhere, about lots of classes. This is weak, that is weak, this needs empowering, that needs nerfing. It's all cyclical. This week monks are weak, stealthers need more stealth and Paladins are crap. Next month it'll be nerfs to sorcerers or druids, or buffs to fighters. It's all a bit silly really, I think.

You do realize 40 AB is absolutely terrible at level 30 right? 40 AB is what rogue's shoot for with HIPS and they still miss with half their attacks(against real opponents). For a damage dealer that is not consistently high, that's consistently low. And monk's are only slightly more versatile since everyone and their mother abuses UMD on this server.

The reason there's discussion on different classes every month is because multiple classes need help. I'm sure you are partly referring to the recent Paladin discussion and the fact of the matter is Favored Souls are by far better then Paladins. In fact they invalidate them. The same is true for Druids invalidating Spirit Shamans. Your approach is to deflect and deny, mine is to address and fix. That's the difference between us.

grunts wrote:You do realize 40 AB is absolutely terrible at level 30 right? 40 AB is what rogue's shoot for with HIPS and they still miss with half their attacks(against real opponents). For a damage dealer that is not consistently high, that's consistently low. And monk's are only slightly more versatile since everyone and their mother abuses UMD on this server.

This is probably a fair assessment for NWN2 in general, but inaccurate when talking about BGTSCC. With 40 AB you'll hit high epic mobs a good amount of times here, as enemies have low AC and high HP by design. Also, Rogues stay around low 30ies with AB (unbuffed): my own rogue had AB 33 at lvl 30 and could hit pretty much every time in his first flurry out of stealth (to give you a term of comparison), buffing only for boss fights.

The reason there's discussion on different classes every month is because multiple classes need help. I'm sure you are partly referring to the recent Paladin discussion and the fact of the matter is Favored Souls are by far better then Paladins. In fact they invalidate them. The same is true for Druids invalidating Spirit Shamans. Your approach is to deflect and deny, mine is to address and fix. That's the difference between us.

Paladins are completely different from FSs, and Spirit Shamans have nothing to do with Druids RP-wise. In a game where you must RP your character sheet and respect the setting, you can never say these classes invalidate one another, regardless of the mechanics: that would be true only in a PvP server.

Grunts, with 5 attacks per round at 40, 1 at 35, that means a 30 monk will probably hit most mobs roughly 6 times a round. Mob AC's typically peak at 35ish, the vast majority of mobs have ACs in the low 30's or high 20's. Level 30 monks do 3d10 plus bonuses. My guy for instance can do 3d10+1d10+1d6+10, that's on average 35.5 per hit with gear that everyone can get. Roughly 210 damage per round to a top AC mob.
The other perks of the class which you write off as being covered by UMD are simply great! It means I don't have to buff! So you've got a fighter that can do great damage, has high AC, none of the weaknesses of a 'typical' fighter and is always ready to go. Spellcasters don't bother monks because they get shut down after the first 2 sec flurry. Mind affects immunity, poison immunity, disease immunity, concealment, damage reduction, fast movement, mid to high 50's AC, all high saves, easy access to expose, imp knockdown, natural spotters vs sneaks. All these things make monks great, not mediocre as you say.
Now, unless you're an old player with a new account, you've only been on this server for 5 minutes. Let me ask one thing: have you ever played a pure monk into epics on THIS server????

AC81 wrote:Grunts... [see above] All these things make monks great, not mediocre as you say.

AC81 speaks true. Monks can be superb on this server, and there are many possible and varied decent monk-based builds... and Monk20/Ftr10 is not one of them. 6 of those levels can be far better used...

But on the subject of the OP, other than for RP (who doesn't like a bar brawl?) there really is little benefit in unarmed mastery for most fighters.

Good to hear considering I have 4 levels as fighter...I'll go the rest of the way as monk.