Armored Monk - Is it worth it?

[R0ninknight]

I agree on the condition that the setting/PW has heavy armor characters with level 30 AC equal to or higher than no-armor characters at level 30. I don't know much about the item tables for this PW, of course.
I've found that heavy armor is, illogically, a hindrance to AC the higher into epic levels the DnD game climbs because the armor mechanics can't stay balanced infinitely- they start to break down slowly at level 21 onwards.
This is because armor imposes a dex cap instead of a dex penalty. I suspect it was for simplicity since it makes so little sense and yes I know about RL armor, historical and modern, with lots of confidence due to my own personal and professional obsessions with it. It really should be a penalty instead of a cap when dealing with historical suits like that. DnD gave a bit of a fix in the magic items compendium with the ability to raise the dex cap of an armor suit for a gold cost instead of a enhancement level cost so it can be done over and over again. Its not much of a fix but it is something. Offense in DnD just keeps climbing while defense peters out with various caps.
So, if armor is actually good, then I agree its a powerful combination -eventually-, if the character survives to level 10 or so; its a high end payout for a low end risk and sacrifice.

[Thorsson]

It all depends on what version of D&D you're playing, but in NWN2 it's offence that caps out. Defence scales much better.

[R0ninknight]

That depends on each individual PW, its rules, and the items in it. I know that a low level monk can blow my low-level, heavy-armor char's AC away from what little I've seen and asked about so far. That will change once magic catches up, in the case of my eldritch-knight-to-be, and the level requirements for decent armor are not such an issue but it can be a challenge to developers to balance, apparently, since I've been in PWs where the items end up such that monks, rogues, and people that evade rather than block get massively high ACs compared to characters in heavy armor and shields. I don't know if this PW is one of those or not. I don't know if capped armor competes with a capped dodger with boosting items.
Also... I"m trying to understand what you mean with the offense and defense statement. Attack bonuses climb with every level infinitely in 3.5 DnD while items all have enchantment caps and armor dex caps. Unless armor can be enchanted infinitely too the infinite one is going to surpass the limited other completely. IMO the Epic Level Handbook is a poorly-designed, half-assed mess that wasn't ready/worthy of publication. I nearly returned the book to the store but I didn't bother because I wanted to support the store.
Now, when limiting the scale to just 30 levels, it comes down to my earlier statement of 'it depends on how the staff made the items'. Someone else would have to give insight into that- which would be very handy information.
Can a paladin and a monk have similar AC or does a max-dex rogue avoid damage like the wind compared to a man-at-arms decked out in plate and a tower shield or do the characters that invest (and by 'invest' I mean sacrifice offensive capability/feats/whatnot for higher AC/Spell Protections) in the armored version of defense end up with higher ACs at level 30? It really comes down to the item tables, I think, along with spell caps when that facet is added to the topic.
Who are the better defenders here- the no armor characters or the heavy armor characters? Are they equal? Does anyone know?

[Thorsson]

I was talking about here. On high magic you can get insane ACs with Bard/RDD/PMs and Druid/Monk/SFs. Nowhere does ABs outstrip ACs.

I should possibly elucidate. When I talk about scaling I mean with available magic. You can add AC through Wisdom, Constitution, Dexterity and Charisma, all of which scale. You can add it through Armor, Shields, Natural, Dodge, Deflection - there are spells for all that scale. And only one of those has a cap (Dodge). AB OTOH only increases through BAB, Enchantment (which is capped) and certain specific Feats.

BGTSCC stops Armor Class getting to the ridiculous levels it can on some PWs, but it's not terribly well balanced; thus, some builds are nigh on unplayable because their AC is just too low.

The best AC here is reserved for such as Divine Shield Casters, seeing as Druid/Monk and RDD are not allowed. Plate Armor and Shield, Divine Shield plus all the spell benefits to Natural, Deflection and Armor and you are way ahead of what you can get by any other means.

[R0ninknight]

That did clear things up quite a bit. Also, that is very handy information. Thanks!

[V'rass]

A monk wearing armor is a bad idea period. Not only does it negate the awesome wisdom ac bonus but it makes most if not all of your monk abilities unusable. Simply a bad build period.

[R0ninknight]

Whenever an cool character concept is unviable in an RPG I blame the rpg, not the player wanting to make the cool thing. Its true that 'armored monk' is not viable- its DnD's fault, though. I can attest personally that in real life martial arts and armor are not mutually exclusive. Perhaps something can be done here to accommodate the idea if there is enough interest but to be honest I think it would be a tough sell generating interest. Good luck!

[Thorsson]

Monk does not equal martial arts; fighters have martial arts. I've never seen a Shao Lin wearing plate...

As for cool concepts - is Superman the coolest superhero?

[V'rass]

Im not trying to blame the player... simply stating that the idea would not function well, if at all. Such a build would be pretty OP if it was possible as being able to wear heavy armor and still getting the full dex and wis bonus would give you ac higher then any other build except maybe mages. You would be unstoppable lol.