Why does the True Believer feat exist?

[ShineDown]

It's for rp value.

It shows that you aren't all about the build.

If all you are worried about in the game is your feat list, then those classes may not be for you.

[Lag]

So are you saying that people who think it is nothing but a feat tax are somehow wrong?

Think carefully because you're pretty close to saying something unfotunate.

The game we play operates within a system of constraints. Just because you feel people who take those contraints into consideration are misguided does not make them or their character/mechanical concerns any less important.

[grymhild]

I kind of agree with ShineDown.

none of my PCs have been "optimized", and unless I end up in PVP against some one else's min-maxed pc, things are fine

also ... as long as the DMs take into account whether or not a PC has the True Believer feat when making decisions about faith-based play, it has a "game "effect

[Lag]

See to me that's and incredibly limiting way to think about it.

If I was told that I couldn't play a dogmatic character without taking that feat, I guarantee you I would play something else. That in and of itself is damaging this amazing story we are telling here. I might have been the best cleric of Jeff the God of biscuits the world has ever seen! But, we'll never know because people can be turned off by useless feats.

[grunts]

It's for rp value.

It shows that you aren't all about the build.

If all you are worried about in the game is your feat list, then those classes may not be for you.

Except that it's entirely an illusion. Some builds don't rely on feats at all. Others don't rely on more then a single good stat. If I get 5 conversation skills on a 30 INT Wizard does that make me more of a RP'er then you?

[Lag]

It's for rp value.

It shows that you aren't all about the build.

If all you are worried about in the game is your feat list, then those classes may not be for you.

Except that it's entirely an illusion. Some builds don't rely on feats at all. Others don't rely on more then a single good stat. If I get 5 conversation skills on a 30 INT Wizard does that make me more of a RP'er then you?

This is exactly the problem. It doesn't gate anything useful. In fact its actually punishing you for wanting to play these character with no jusification. It's not gating anything questionable in nature like a red wizard who isn't thayan. It's not even limiting an unbalanced feature! It's simply there arbitrarily and frankly punishes players like shinedown more.

They may not care about their build but I care about their build. If they have useful things in their toolbox they are more likely to contribute to the story in a meaningful way, no?

[ShineDown]

(1)So are you saying that people who think it is nothing but a feat tax are somehow wrong?

(2)Think carefully because you're pretty close to saying something unfotunate.

(3)The game we play operates within a system of constraints. Just because you feel people who take those contraints into consideration are misguided does not make them or their character/mechanical concerns any less important.

1-Yes. It's part of the many prestige classes. In fact every prestige class has required skills, feats, etc.
2-I really don't think I am.
3-The system of constraints represented in this thread are the prerequisites for certain classes. If someone does not take the feat, they may not take the class. If they do take the feat, they may, of their own choice, choose that class.

[Cel'Daren]

Feat tax to apply for a Prestige Class? Sure, go ahead, as long as it provides SOMETHING else to my character. Arcane Scholar requires Skill Focus Concentration and Spellcraft. Definite feat tax in my opinion. Still gives my character something beyond being able to be an Arcane Scholar.

Please, make it so that True Believer gives Some kind of benefit on its own. Bonus to Saves. Skill bonuses. The ability to cast Bless once a day. Something!

[illithid]

I actually like the concept that the more specialised you become, the worse you become at mundane/non specialised things. There was a thread posted on background feats at some point (someone will link it if I jog enough memories), where IIRC a homebrew collection from a DM in his private games in which players could opt for customised background feats, but many actually made superbly specialised characters but overall worse mechanically. Like "Elfbane" +2 AB +1d6 vs elves, -1 AB - 1d4 vs all other types.

Give true believer +2 will, -2 reflex, -2 fortitude!!

[Ithilan]

I actually like the concept that the more specialised you become, the worse you become at mundane/non specialised things. There was a thread posted on background feats at some point (someone will link it if I jog enough memories), where IIRC a homebrew collection from a DM in his private games in which players could opt for customised background feats, but many actually made superbly specialised characters but overall worse mechanically. Like "Elfbane" +2 AB +1d6 vs elves, -1 AB - 1d4 vs all other types.

Give true believer +2 will, -2 reflex, -2 fortitude!!

Sooo disagree with this, why punish the choice? What true beliver build would require will saves over reflex and fortitude? Mention a cleric build thats lackluster on will saves please..
Id much rather have it as a blank feat than a penalty and that is a HUGE penalty to some builds.
If anything make it do something like cast bless X times a days or such, as Lag suggested, thats much more reasonable and much more in tune with the purpose of the feat if you ask me.

[thids]

I would just like to point out that it has been ruled in the past that Clerics, paladins and other divine casters have true believer automatically in terms of RP purposes.


I do think though that it's a silly feat which was added only because of certain PrC's requirements. Could have been handled differently, I mean true believer feat requirement for a prc in pnp in terms of translating it to a nwn2 pw is basically the same as those special requirements that some prc's have.


Assassin

Special
The character must kill someone for no other reason than to join the assassins.

Monk of the Long Death

Special: The candidate must he inducted into the monks of the long death via a secret ceremony consisting of various morbid and hideous acts designed to test his resolve.

Super Saiyan winged angel shooting lasers from their eyes, screaming "PAY ATTENTION TO ME" aka Solar Channeler

Special: You must have an affiliation score of 9 or higher within the Luminous Order to become a solar channeler. If your affiliation score drops below 9 after you have become a solar channeler, you retain all class features and the ability to advance in the class.

We don't ask these classes to fulfill these requirements, and there are cases where feat or skill requirements that aren't in nwn2 and aren't fit for nwn2 were either removed or replaced with another requirement.


Introducing a potential RP aspect that depends solely on a feat on someone's character sheet instead of actual RP was a bad idea.

[MopKnight]

Speaking as a future Super Saiyan Channeller, I am happy with True Believer as is. I am also likely going to take Leadership, since I think my feats should represent my roleplay.

[Considerate_]

I think that there's varying opinions on this topic, and it's not a matter of either all feat are useful or none are. I don't see that there's any problem with the existing variation of the feats.


I've yet to meet someone playing a cleric or divine class, who was somehow impaired RP-wise because they didn't have the feat True Believer. (the feat isn't a must)

I've yet to meet someone with the feat True Believer, who told others he was better than them or felt entitled to special treatment because he had the feat.

[thids]

I've yet to meet someone playing a cleric or divine class, who was somehow impaired RP-wise because they didn't have the feat True Believer. (the feat isn't a must)

Why would a cleric take true believer unless they need it to unlock a PrC? As I stated above, clerics are "true believers" by default and so are paladins. Taking it on those classes without needing it for a PrC is just silly and senseless.

[mrm3ntalist]

True Believer is a feat that should not have been implemented, or at least should have been done better. It is not like one of the feats that obsidian implemented. We made a feat that does nothing. When a new feat does nothing, you are guaranteed to get these discussions.

Yes, saying that because one took the true believer, somehow the character is a true believer is nothing. Basically noone will ever take this feat, unless he needs to unlock a PRC.

Unless you are Hoihe