Allow players seat in the Conclave (Discussion)

[DM_Absolution]

Gromph, who is know to be one of the strongest arcane casters in UD is around level 22, so individual power level is not all that.(hard to compare to game levels though) Collective powers in the sense that the conclave members have guards and probably spells keeping them warded from intruders (in case of assassinations) then i would assume it just takes extra effort.

In summary, it is fully possible to get rid of these members, either by assassination OR allow the DM to host a series of events in which case there is -other- reasons why the seat becomes vacant.

You all seem to focused on how possible it is to get rid of them, the questions should rather be;

1) Should we let/allow players have positions of power? (political)
2) What rules should we create to make sure this would not get out of hand?

[Tsidkenu]

Thanks for bringing this discussion back on track, Absolution.

1. Yes.

2. Conditional upon significant IC and forum RP investment.

• Minimum time of 3 months playing UD, perhaps 6 months?
  PC to be granted access must displace a member on the list via IG or forum RP
  Replacement must be approved by whole Conclave- ie. DMs
  
  [Edit]
  
  Alternatively, significant RP to justify the addition of a new seat

[Passiflora]

There used to be a guy sitting there when I used to play. Not the case anymore?

[BigJ]

1) Yes, an interesting albeit scary idea
2) Limited power not absolute power. Ie. A council member could in theory just point at someone in the street and say "Kill/Jail/Tickle Them".

Perhaps the council could introduce a sub-committee (better named) that players can aspire too? One delegated with running the city day-to-day, with the occasional higher priority task.

Makes sense for the council members, frees up more of their time whilst drawing in some of the outside que'llars into the political system to compete against each other, and they can observe how they function. At the same time absolute power stays with the council (DM's).

BigJ

[Cel'Daren]

I vote YES to this general idea, I vote NO against creating more Council positions, however BigJ's idea of a sub-committee sounds interesting.

[ShineDown]

1) Should we let/allow players have positions of power? (political)
2) What rules should we create to make sure this would not get out of hand?

1) Yes but limited. (See below.)

2) In some aspects many UD Sshamath school mages already do have limited positions of power as reflected on the Conclave list. They have easier access to their representative. As BigJ commented, perhaps player representatives of the members could become involved in the politics that is the Conclave. In this regard we could avoid breaking lore and no one player could be above another in terms of political power. This way the DMs would still have final say in all real matters but could still be influenced.

I think Absolutions idea has merit in creating more 'life' in the UD but I lack faith in players to properly play positions of power. The UD is, as the name implies, dark. Not only in graphics but in general. It often feels devoid of life and drow society is not friendly even to the drow themselves, let alone an outsider. Sshamath is a special place to play though and I appreciate how some of the finest rpers I've met have chosen to take up residence there, focusing on lore and rp and giving it life.

The UD aspect of the server(personal opinion still going here) needs more people by opening it up more. When DM events, like todays happen, I cannot help but be amazed by what goes on and how much more alive the place comes. If we want to bring that sort of feel to the UD, we need more players.

As an aside note I have read quips on the 7th Circle but never heard of it mentioned in game. Is it a dead guild and if so, how can one join it?

[Israe]

Jys would jump on those seats fast as hell if they make it available. I've only ever seen one seat holding member online.

[Blackman D]

while interesting enough such an idea would essentially be over turning the rule that players are no longer allowed to play flaming fist or charnag maelthra because of the authority they have

different aspects yes but same principle, and CM power base is obviously lower status than the conclave

[DM Dialectic]

This is not a DM team ruling or opinion, just my own personal brainstorming.

Not getting into the possibility of player characters replacing NPC rulers of major settlements and the IC or OOC feasibility of this on our server, what about player characters in Sshamath trying to create a Foreign Exchange Committee or War Council type player initiative group that the Conclave would have IC reason to conditionally delegate some duties, decisions, missions, and responsibilities to from time to time, suiting with Sshamath lore of course? It also might be an interesting way to inclusively bring Sshamath political RP together.

[Aelcar]

This is not a DM team ruling or opinion, just my own personal brainstorming.

Not getting into the possibility of player characters replacing NPC rulers of major settlements and the IC or OOC feasibility of this on our server, what about player characters in Sshamath trying to create a Foreign Exchange Committee or War Council type player initiative group that the Conclave would have IC reason to conditionally delegate some duties, decisions, missions, and responsibilities to from time to time, suiting with Sshamath lore of course? It also might be an interesting way to inclusively bring Sshamath political RP together.

You're describing the 7th Circle.

[Nomster]

I am not sure that replacing the NPC Conclave is the right way to go about it. They are the rulers of Sshamath and no one would replace the Dukes with players - kinda need to keep in mind they are basically on the same power level.

If people are interested in this kind of RP, I think BigJ's and Dialectic's suggestions may be more plausible. Not only that but a committee/council would allow more characters a chance to influence things and have a taste of politics, while a Conclave seat is limited to 1 character.

Rasael's character is on a council seat for the Seventh Circle but I believe he has been played almost as an NPC, very rarely actually using the position... I am sure he can chime in on that himself though.

[illithid]

You're describing the 7th Circle.

Quite true.

while interesting enough such an idea would essentially be over turning the rule that players are no longer allowed to play flaming fist or charnag maelthra because of the authority they have

Also true.

The UD aspect of the server(personal opinion still going here) needs more people by opening it up more. When DM events, like todays happen, I cannot help but be amazed by what goes on and how much more alive the place comes. If we want to bring that sort of feel to the UD, we need more players.

and another truth.

---

I'm torn on the idea, I think that in the right hands it would be magical, and in the wrong hands it would be terrible. I dare say I could have a guess at who the "right" hands could be, and could lay out ground rules for screening processes, but then we arrive back at this thread, and even that one goes wrong sometimes...

Whilst having active PC seats would be great for RP and intrigue I just wonder whether it would be too loose from an admin point of view to let things go down that line, and how many "bad experiences" will be needed before it gets canned. But at the same time, how many undoubtedly dedicated players will rise, shine, wither and die with an environment lacking interest??

so...
1) Maybe
2) Acceptance of DM assassination, at the drop of a hat, with no argument

[Tsidkenu]

I have an idea. Let's join up together, destroy the Conclave and their useless puppets and re-establish a good, old fashioned Lolthite theocracy, just like the good ol' days. Ay? Ay? Who's with me?

[Rasael]

Rasael's character is on a council seat for the Seventh Circle but I believe he has been played almost as an NPC, very rarely actually using the position... I am sure he can chime in on that himself though.

Ilphryssin is an NPC. He was very fortunate to be in the right place at the right time.

The position was acquired during the illithi-lich war for the 7th Circle's success in the battle of the misty lake. The Temple of Lolth gained a seat at the same time, because of the appearance of Lolth's Avatar - which slew the Illithi-lich as it attacked S'shamath proper.

In essence neither the 7th Circle or the Temple of Lolth or House S'shamath have ever had 'real' influence in S'shamath. The schools of magic possess all the institutions, the city's wards, the military, and many of the coin sources. Ilphryssin was never consulted on anything, but he did broker some research- and trade- agreements.

[Nyeleni]

Maybe not a seat in the conclave per se. But what about a team of specialists consulting the conclave in diffferent matters?

Military
Economy
Arcane

etc.