Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Tenebrosity wrote: I assume it's the "Neverwinter Nights 2 vanilla" way to bring the Shadow Weave into perspective

Nope. It's a real pnp spell for illusionsists to have access to conjuration spells through illusion magic.

And it is very, very, very important to stress here that shadow magic is not shadow weave.

Shadow magic is a subschool of illusion.

Shadow weave is a medium for manipulating raw magical energies.

Deathgrowl wrote:

Tenebrosity wrote: I assume it's the "Neverwinter Nights 2 vanilla" way to bring the Shadow Weave into perspective

Nope. It's a real pnp spell for illusionsists to have access to conjuration spells through illusion magic.

And it is very, very, very important to stress here that shadow magic is not shadow weave.

Shadow magic is a subschool of illusion.

Shadow weave is a medium for manipulating raw magical energies.

Fair enough, but still ~ is it possible to make those spells of Shadow Conjuration which is Illusion remain illusion? Otherwise, I wonder what's the point of the initial school of the spell.

For an illusionist, for example, Shadow Conjuration - Magic missile still remain an Evocation spell, he doesn't benefit from it. If he does, then a Shadow Weave user who have enhanced Illusion magic should benefit of it aswell.

Tenebrosity wrote:Fair enough, but still ~ is it possible to make those spells of Shadow Conjuration which is Illusion remain illusion? Otherwise, I wonder what's the point of the initial school of the spell.

For an illusionist, for example, Shadow Conjuration - Magic missile still remain an Evocation spell, he doesn't benefit from it. If he does, then a Shadow Weave user who have enhanced Illusion magic should benefit of it aswell.

I don't know what kind of benefit you're suggesting he should have. Shadow Conjuration (Magic Missile) is still an illusion. It's not like an evoker or someone with spell focus evocation is benefiting anything in particular over a generalist in casting normal Magic Missile anyways. It doesn't have a DC.

Well, I'm sorry if I am not clear enough in my words, it must be my lack of english since it's my second language.

All I'm suggesting is a Shadow Adept shouldn't have his spells hindered when they use Shadow Conjuration, that's all.

If you don't know about Shadow Adept, they have Necromancy, Illusion and Enchantement spells enhanced, while Evocation, Transmutation and some other lose potency and are WEAKER. So, if I use Shadow Conjuration - Magic missile, it's WEAKER because of the Shadow Weave (because the spell Magic Missile is still Evocation) even though it's initially casted from a spell that is ILLUSION, so no, Shadow conjuration isn't just illusion, the descriptive is, but all those spells that come from it have their former school, which I find rather useless for a mage, that's the issue.

PS; I know it doesn't mean much anymore that I am a higher level, but it's still something worth looking at IMO.

I understood the first time and believe it is a fair call, although it only really matters in the lower levels (where it makes a significant difference!)

Eg. a 5th level wizard casts 3 magic missiles at a target.

A 6th level wizard 5/ Shadow Adept 1 casts 1 magic missile (regular) at a target (CL 6 -4 evocation CL penalty = CL 2)

A 7th level wizard 5/ Shadow Adept 2 using Shadow Conjuration: Magic Missle as a 4th level slot ought to cast 6 shadow magic missiles at the target (CL 7 +4 illusion CL bonus = CL 11)

But because of the glitch outlined for us by Tenebrosity, they would instead cast 2 (CL 7 -4 evocation penalty = CL 3)

Said mage would also get penalised for Shadow Conjuration: Mage Armour, lasting 15 mins (3 game hours) instead of 55 mins (11 game hours). This is a fair and reasonable change, if possible.

Tenebrosity: Do these penalties also apply to Greater Shadow Conjuration (Melf's Acid Arrow, Minor Globe of Invunerability) and Shades (Summon Creature VIII or Delayed Blast Fireball)?

[Edit]:

Tenebrosity wrote:Greater Shadow Conjuration suffers the same fate with its version of Melf's Acid Arrow, Web, and Lesser Globe of Invulnerability.