Question on a topic in the new update

[Hrothgar]

So with the new update nerfing (or balancing) gishes. What build is gonna be the new king of the mountain?

Level 30 man-at-arms max dex.

*har har*

[Darkcloud777]

Is cl 28 a good cl?

[crimsonrain15]

I don't think 28 is a bad CL...

[Karond]

Is cl 28 a good cl?

If the Greater Dispel Magic cap isn't reverted, you have a 10% chance at being dispelled by a level 20+ caster. Bosses that cast mordekainen often have 30 CL, which gives them a 60% chance at dispelling you. The Lizardmen Chieftain has 0 CL I think, so it's just a breach for him. So is 28 CL good or bad? You decide

[mrm3ntalist]

Having 28CL with hips is not that bad. My hips mage has a CL of 27

[thids]

The dispel CL bug feels like it's been a game of chicken between players and the staff/QC over the last 3 years. Staff and QC saying constantly "it will get fixed" and players being all like "yeah right, as if anything changes around here! I'll just play my CL21 character while you guys work on your 'fix'. Nerds."

Well, shit got real son.

[chad878262]

Well, I think what it boils down to now is if the greater dispel cap gets lowered back to 25 or if the increase stays in... If so anything below CL 29 is going to have problems in several areas. I'm hopeful that greater dispel is changed since it appears the increase was a bandaid for the bug...

[Karond]

Anything below 30 is hit by greater dispels. Personally, I hope that it isn't reverted. Some people are always crusading on what's pnp and what isn't, and this is actually such a change. In pnp, greater dispel is +20, like we've now, not +15 that the game came with (according to the nwn2 wiki at least).

But we can probably breathe a little easier about it. Most spawns don't have greater dispel, but breach. Some people might want us to get them dispels instead of breaches, but if so I hope greater dispel isn't that prevalent as it can be quite an annoying mechanic to deal with on a grinding basis

[Rasael]

You can still counterspell dispels anyway.... you have options for existing characters that way. I counterspelled a harm once - would of killed me.

[Invoker]

Fair enough:

So with the new update nerfing (or balancing) gishes. What build is gonna be the new king of the mountain?

Gishes have never been "kings" of anything. They're just an effective kind of build, like many others.

Anything below 30 is hit by greater dispels. Personally, I hope that it isn't reverted. Some people are always crusading on what's pnp and what isn't, and this is actually such a change. In pnp, greater dispel is +20, like we've now, not +15 that the game came with (according to the nwn2 wiki at least).

But we can probably breathe a little easier about it. Most spawns don't have greater dispel, but breach.

Breach does not exist in PnP. It's a mechanic created to balance NWN2, with a limited list of spells on it. Which has been expanded in BGTSCC. Breach vulnerability (with the original list, NOT the expanded one) was balanced by the lowered Dispel cap and other advantages like Epic Spells having no SR check.

-) Dispel cap has been raised
-) SR check added to Epic Spells
-) Breach list expanded

Now, this was not obvious so far because of the CL bug covering everything. Fixing that, you'll see a lot of people that thought they were playing powerful characters getting smashed to bits, simply because of the sheer amount of enemies (opening with dispels every single time they spawn) you need to kill in order to level up.

It's going to be fun to watch (for me, at least...)

You can still counterspell dispels anyway.... you have options for existing characters that way. I counterspelled a harm once - would of killed me.

I don't think so.

Harm is a low circle spell with a Fort save for 1/2. That's 75 dmg. IF the opponent manages to touch you in the first place.

1) A wizard has Shadow Shield, with which he is immune to Harm (it's negative energy damage...).

2) If you somehow, for unfathomable reasons, have SS down when you expect Necromancy, then you shouldn't worry overly much anyway: Bear's Endurance is already +60 HP. GH gives additional HP. False Life is additional HP. Vampiric Touch pretty much nullifies spikes. Any of these spells is cheaper than a counterspell on Harm

3) Killing the guy instead of losing your action, and THEN healing, is better than waiting on him for counterspell.

The only moment a counterspell is worth using is to prevent Mords from a boss. And even there, you'll better be a Sorcerer.