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Re: Hovering Skull: Evil? I think not!
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:06 pm
by metaquad4
Rhifox wrote:
Hovering Skull has the Undead type. It is harmed by Positive energy and healed by Negative energy (which means it is powered by negative energy). I killed one of my skulls by using a Cure Moderate Wounds wand on it, while I can heal it with Negative Energy Ray. It is not just a levitating object where the object just happens to be a skull (such a spell would, frankly, be evocation, not necromancy), it is an undead and therefore it is an Evil spell. In DnD creating or summoning undead in any fashion is Evil.
Creating undead in D&D is evil, except where its not. Its descriptor judges if it is evil or not. Baelnorns (Either created through elven high magic or created via one of the elven pantheon) and Shadowdancer created Shadows (which are undead shades) are two great examples of none-evil undead creatures. Revenance (Hoarite Spell in 2e, a general Paladin/Cleric/Blackguard spell here) summons a vengeful undead shade and does not contain the evil descriptor (thusly, not evil by D&D's rules).
As Whistler (and so many others, as this question is asked time and time again) pointed out:
Does it have the evil descriptor?
Yes=Evil Spell
No=Not Evil Spell
This is the general rule of thumb in D&D, and it appears to be the general rule of thumb for the DMs here (DMs, feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this).
This should really be stickied in Tips and Tricks. That whole "how to tell if a spell is evil" thing. If that is indeed the DM enforced method.
As for the original question:
I haven't seen the spell IG or not, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have an evil descriptor (else, someone would have likely mentioned that). It doesn't on the BG wiki, at least.
http://bgtscc.wikia.com/wiki/Hovering_Skull
Also, its worth noting that our characters can react as if the spell is evil. PCs/NPCs (except maybe gods?) shouldn't know what alignments are, and shouldn't know what alignment spells are. One man might see Baelnorns as horrid evil things! One man might have grown up around Baelnorns and see such undead creatures as "kinda-ok". Who knows!
Re: Hovering Skull: Evil? I think not!
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:49 pm
by Rhifox
The lack of an Evil descriptor is something that I think is an issue with the spell and that that should be changed. Vile Darkness defines what is an Evil spell and even recommends to go through the Player's Handbook and add the Evil descriptor to several spells that don't have it but should by BoVD's definition.
I don't consider the lack of a descriptor on BGTSCC to mean much since the spell was literally just implemented and is a conversion of a spell from 2nd edition (which did not have descriptors at all). I am suggesting that the devs should give it the Evil descriptor, because it fits the definition of what an Evil descriptor is supposed to be according to 3.5 edition handbooks. I believe the same thing should be done with Revenance.
Re: Hovering Skull: Evil? I think not!
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:55 pm
by Deathgrowl
Does the PnP variant state that the skull is an undead? Is it even a necromancy spell?
Re: Hovering Skull: Evil? I think not!
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:08 pm
by Rhifox
Deathgrowl wrote:Does the PnP variant state that the skull is an undead? Is it even a necromancy spell?
It is a necromancy spell. The description does not state specifically whether or not it is undead.
Complete Wizard's Handbook wrote:Hovering Skull (Necromancy)
Range: Special
Components: V, S
Duration: 2 rounds/level
Casting Time: 4
Area of Effect: Special
Saving Throw: None
This spell creates a glowing human skull with sharp fangs. The skull hovers about a foot above the caster's shoulder; as the caster moves, the skull hovers along with him. If the caster stops moving and concentrates, he can mentally command the hovering skull to move in any direction within a 30- foot radius.
The caster can see through the skull's eyes as if they were his own; for instance, the hovering skull could be ordered to investigate a dark cave or peek over a high wall. Additionally, the caster can order the hovering skull to attack victims with its razor-sharp teeth.
If the caster's concentration is interrupted while controlling the skull, the skull immediately drops to the ground (but it takes no damage). If the caster resumes concentration, he can continue to command the skull. The hovering skull has the same statistics as the caster, except the skull has 3 hit points and inflicts 1-6 hit points of damage with its bite. Attacks directed at the skull do not harm the caster, nor does damage directed at the caster affect the skull.
The material component for this spell is the tooth from a human skull.
Re: Hovering Skull: Evil? I think not!
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:16 pm
by tankteddy
There is also a new high level cleric spell that summons undead ((called Undead army or such)) that is labeled EVIL, EXCEPT in the case of a halfling cleric of Urogalan.
Urogalan clerics can summon undead with out it being evil as Urogalan allows this.
Again the PC goal was to become a Baelnorn Lich ((chaotic good)) while I don't expect people to be ok with everything, at least be open and understanding. If you can create the same effect though means NOT evil. Then is it possible to study a spell enough to create such?
Re: Hovering Skull: Evil? I think not!
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:36 pm
by Lockonnow
I will take it as a evil but it is a mighty cool thing who care if is a evil i mean you have the talking Skull I was ones a Necromancer it will say