Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Personally I do use this on my 2 of my PC.
Jenny Quickfeet ((You would know why if you meet Penny))
Ritoki Overhill ((Lynx))

Ritoki is an Assassin/fighter/monk build that uses Ki step as a type of Assassination skill. the High speed lets her close gaps to stick her target before they can react. Aside from that maybe a bit of RP flare, or movement bonus.

I agree something needs to be done to make it a little less useful for Dipped toons. How every Limiting it to stun fist per day, you would blow threw this WAY to fast. This feet does not break line of sight so spells can still hit the target. It works for Engage or Disengage only ((Combat wise)) and Extreme Movement ((Out of Combat)) Unlimited range I have yet to travel from one side of the map to another, granted that Hills and walls Block Ki step. How ever I agree it should be limited in Range. Perhaps make the range = to 1.5x the Charge feat Range.

Ki step for monks is Basicly HIPS to a Shadow Dancer or Assassin.

My only real complaint about the feat is: Warlock Zen archer with 4 monk and Extra Stun fist. or such, Thats a 30 CL with High UMD for Owls Insight scrolls. Range touch based of wisdom ((Unless fixed)) and High AC because of WIS. Ki Step Blast would make it hard to kill a Warlock.

I would Fix the feat like so:
Range Reduced to 40-80 Feet
Uses Limited to Stun fist per 2mins. ((like intended))
Uses Unlimited with 6 second Cooldown
Must be unencumbered AND not wearing armor.
Must be taken on Monk level ((Like it is now))
Must be taken with ATLEAST 6 levels Monk.((This is where Casterlevel starts to suffer.))

Edit: Yes this lets me keep Ritoki Build like it is but she does suffer a -20% xp hit for a few levels new epic. ((Call me selfish but It Fits Ritoki RP so well.))

I agree with most your suggestions but

tankteddy wrote:Must be taken with ATLEAST 6 levels Monk.((This is where Casterlevel starts to suffer.))

A 3/6 level dip is what most dippers go for - as it provides evasion / i.knockdown and being alble to pick an escape feat on top of that - thats to good. Imagine a F/WM/Mo/.... with K-Step (or a Paladin, FS,.....)

All Ki Feats should be tied to Stunning Fist use per day.

Yes but the feat requires BAB of +6 13 dex and 13 wis. HAS to be taken on a MONK level, and you can not wear any armor. Dex based Fighter would be ok with it, but to see any real use from it would be pure monk.

Personally I just dont want to lose the feat Entirely on my Assassin, It fits her RP.
The issues is Monk really only works if you take a DIP, 20 or 30 levels of Monk. TO multi class you lose SO much.

Shadowdancer requires 19 Dex so Going WIS monk doesnt work as well.

I have a RP build that is Monk/Fighter/Dragon warrior. Sadly This build is poor on the server because he is built around, Dragon Warrior Weapon for Fire ((Nerfed to only give 1d4 fire level 10)) and Fiery Fist
((Where NWN2DB says cost 1 use of Stun fist / / / The server Require 2 uses of Stun fist))
Even this build going Wisdom you lose to much AB and damage, going Dex lose to much Damage and Monk Fiery Fist Last such a small amount of time, Going STR You lose AC.
RP Fire Monk build http://nwn2db.com/build/?237064

Lynx Build- http://nwn2db.com/build/?238752

If anything Fix the Fiery Fist feat to require 1 Stun Fist like all the other Ki Feats.

Tankteddy, what you are asking for was deemed OP many years ago when QC reviewed Fiery Fist to be added to the Server.

Your post above mentions how you made a mechanically weak build for RP reasons BY CHOICE, but are advocating for the Server to change to empower your choice.

Any monk based build needs absolutely no help in power.

Note that Ki Step is supposed to be something you can use once / 2 minutes and only spend a use of stunning fist once. If you use it one after the other it should cost a use each and every time, Rasael will have this fixed rather quickly and then we can see, but even so, just being able to use once every two minutes still seems like an unlimited get out of jail free card when in trouble. I will try and test it once Rasael implements a fix and I can get in game to see what I can break.

chad878262 wrote:Note that Ki Step is supposed to be something you can use once / 2 minutes and only spend a use of stunning fist once. If you use it one after the other it should cost a use each and every time, Rasael will have this fixed rather quickly and then we can see, but even so, just being able to use once every two minutes still seems like an unlimited get out of jail free card when in trouble. I will try and test it once Rasael implements a fix and I can get in game to see what I can break.

Yeah, there was a mix-up in the code. Ras submitted the change and it will be in the next update.

tankteddy wrote:The issues is Monk really only works if you take a DIP, 20 or 30 levels of Monk. TO multi class you lose SO much.

Shadowdancer requires 19 Dex so Going WIS monk doesnt work as well.

I just want to throw in that this is not entirely true.

What is a dip classified as? 3 levels? 5? 6? where is the break point where it is no longer a dip?

M11/R10/A9 is a very standard build. M11/R13/WD3/SD3 is another option that loses Assassin goodies and a bit of SA damage, but gains better stealth (through skill focus feats from WD) and epic dodge. When it comes to Sacred Fist builds there are oh so many options... Monk 5 allows you to still get full caster level 30 if you use the Hierophant class... Monk 6 gives you a bit more, along with improved knockdown and is still CL29. M20/C3/SF7 is essentially a full monk, minus spell resistance improvement that can also use divine power (with strength domain can pretty much always have it up by filling 3, 4 and 5 slots with divine power/extended dp). Even Monk 13/C7/SF10 is still viable, yes it is dispellable, but dispel mobs are reduced and this allows you to get level 9 spells and blazing aura which alongside Sacred Flames and Fiery Fist gives you a lot of damage potential. A Fighter might take 6 levels of monk, even if not dex based for goodies like improved knockdown, deflect arrows, and access to skills etc. even if they wear full plate. Paladin builds and Cleric builds are certainly known to 'dip' 3 or 4 levels of monk as well.

So let's see, there are builds with Monk levels ranging from 3 - 13 in addition to 20 levels... Caster based and Stealth based, Wis and Dex based. Personally I think Monk is one of the more versatile base classes with stopping points all across the spectrum.

As I said though, I'm more than willing to test out the feat in it's correct form when the next update goes in, but I do think at a minimum we need to have some type of range so that you can't ki step from one end of a map to the other, that seems too much IMO.

chad878262 wrote:Note that Ki Step is supposed to be something you can use once / 2 minutes and only spend a use of stunning fist once. If you use it one after the other it should cost a use each and every time, Rasael will have this fixed rather quickly and then we can see, but even so, just being able to use once every two minutes still seems like an unlimited get out of jail free card when in trouble. I will try and test it once Rasael implements a fix and I can get in game to see what I can break.

As I pointed out in my other post, calling it a 'jail card' is very unfair as many other classes have a much more effective way of getting away i.e. going invisible in the middle of battle and running away, using shadow jump, using hide in plain sight etc... etc... All Ki jump does is make you jump from point A to point B, the monsters will still chase you - and in many cases you end up with even more - in caves this is a nightmare, believe me I know. When you guys test this feat and see that you can get away fast - and think it is unbalanced; why not try testing invisibility which does the very same thing, can you call that unfair too?

If you compare it to other abilities classes we have in the game this argument seems very trival; by all means make a few ajustments - but don't treat it as if we are warping space and time; all we are doing is jumping from A to B, we don't get +16 str, we just...jump, and taking a 'dip' for that ability is silly because you only delay the battle and lose a lot of power by doing so, unless you are a monk.

I agree it needs to be tweaked slightly; but I must request it is done carefully - hitting this feat hard may upset a lot of players or simply force them to RCR their toon (like I will)

I think Tankteddy has a fair way of sorting this out:

tankteddy wrote: I would Fix the feat like so:
Range Reduced to 40-80 Feet
Uses Limited to Stun fist per 2mins. ((like intended))
Uses Unlimited with 6 second Cooldown
Must be unencumbered AND not wearing armor.
Must be taken on Monk level ((Like it is now))
Must be taken with ATLEAST 6 levels Monk.((This is where Casterlevel starts to suffer.))

chad878262 wrote:As I said though, I'm more than willing to test out the feat in it's correct form when the next update goes in, but I do think at a minimum we need to have some type of range so that you can't ki step from one end of a map to the other, that seems too much IMO.

QFT... Not saying it needs a severe beating of the nerf stick, but ki stepping to the other end of the map kinda does equate to the enemy not following you, they are no longer going to see you. Invisibility and hips have some problems, such as enemies where you might need this to escape having true sight and (very) high spot/listen. Again, I am not saying any further changes are needed, but this topic was started based on concerns of the feats power level, so it is certainly worth a look. If there are issues as you listed, perhaps no changes are needed. 1 use per day is fine, but assuming the issues you indicate perhaps an unnecessary change, if you use it multiple times within 2 minutes you have to use multiple stunning fist uses anyway, but if you are with a party and you use it to jump over to help out your caster, or to jump out of the fray and reposition for a death attack (monk assassin for instance) than I think it is really just cool flavor at that point.

I am very worried now, and am half expecting this feat to be beaten into submission which (like I said before) would upset a lot of monk players - even more so if it is done when the RCR bot goes back to 50% - because I know we will not get an XP refund if/when this happens.

Yes, make it more balanced, yes reduce the distance (I admit it is stupid), yes make it for monks only, but don't start hammering away at it.

In open areas, it is possible to jump so far out of range that enemies simply have no chance of catching up to you. Even in a closed space, like Frost Giants, you can simply make several shorter quick jumps. I was able to blink my way past three mobs of enemies (including the Frost Giant King).

As chad points out, invisible or stealthed characters can still be detected by some foes, and are still at risk of attack. Ki Stepping monks can remove themselves from danger entirely. There is no real challenge there, aside from angling your camera correctly so you can click on a suitable patch of ground.

chad878262 wrote:if you use it multiple times within 2 minutes you have to use multiple stunning fist uses anyway

Please note that the feat's "refund" mechanic is currently broken. It is possible to use the feat without spending any stunning fist uses.

I suppose I agree with trogers. It might be enough to just:

• limit the distance range, and
• have the feat spend a stunning fist use without refund (and/or impose a cooldown, which would make a lot of sense in RP)

Either way, I am glad QC is taking a look at this feat. Thank you for your attention.

Arn wrote:Please note that the feat's "refund" mechanic is currently broken. It is possible to use the feat without spending any stunning fist uses.

Duster47 wrote:Yeah, there was a mix-up in the code. Ras submitted the change and it will be in the next update.

This piece is being fixed in next patch as per Duster.

Oh, in the Serpent's Trail, you can also Ki Step from the ramp up to the Serpent Temple down to the ledge with the portal that is right after the locked door (the one you need to beat the Hydra to get the key for). One example of the range being used to just straight bypass content and get closer to that boss kill loot (which invariably, will be both rags AND an empty ale stein lol).

Again I would like to Note this is not a 100% get out of Jail Free card, I have still Died to Attacks that happen last second before I ki Step away, I have Died from Spells being targeted on me.

You Ki step range will NEVER out range a Missile Storm or Flame Arrow spell, It WILL follow you.

Still The feat DOES need to be limited in Range and Frequency. ((be it limited Per day OR Cooldown))

*Personally I would like a Cooldown with unlimited uses but we cant alway get what we want*