Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Can get quite a lot of damage out of fighter12/bard8/dread pirate10. It works both with dex and strength, though admittedly better with strength. The bonus damage from feats and inspiration is already +14. Then you can add the EB and maybe a bit of strength if you have it. And of course the dice. Say you have a +4 weapon and 14 strength. That's already 20 damage before the dice, in other words.

But you can't expect a dual wielder to do wm/fb kind of damage per hit when they hit so much more often. The only way to make that happen is indeed with sneak attack.

I don't know what OP feels is lacking, but I'm pretty sure that we as a community can come up with a working build for just about any reasonable description of a character concept put to us. But there is always the problem with players wanting to do too much (being great at archery and melee with the same character is a common desire, for instance).

Epic dodge is an expensive and high investment feat for a very, very good reason. It is the best defensive feat in the game apart from HiPS.

Those whom are responding to this post are driving me crazy!

The OP is saying they want to play a pure Dexer, no sneak dice and no fighter dip, acknowledging that it is extremely difficult on this server due to the institution of lower AC/higher DR Epic Mobs.

So, what is the response of everyone?
Here is how you build for power!?!?!

No, I don't think the DR should be reduced.

I can tell you from personal experience that playing a non-sneak dice dexer on this server in EPIC IS NEAR IMPOSSIBLE without establishing some other way to survive which for me was making it a GISH with high AC and high DR (on top of HIPS).

What galls me, is that the very answer people are giving, building for power, is what makes the team put the screws to the DEX builds. Why is Expose Weakness made such a contentious issue, because Weapon Master/Frenzied Berserkers (don't get me started there) with a dip in Rogue take it to get 100-200+ DMG hit free each round, when if it was only used by Dexers with a minimum Dex of 22, the max free hit would be between 5-18 dmg making it a non-issue! Also, it was asked why deadly defense was given 1d4 instead of 1d6, that is because again, Weapon Master-Frenzied Berserker, can push an extra 1d6 x 4 a Crit to get a possible 24 Dmg on top of 200+ dmg, ala screwing the Dexers whom need that 1d6 x 2. Lol, so instead of saying let's institute again and minimum Dex Req. of 20-22 for Deadly Defense, I can only imagine that it was to enticing for someone to put an extra 1d4 x 4 onto their builds and instituted it.

I say, stop talking of and actually nerfing Dex-based feats and start adding appropriate Dex-Requirements so POWERBUILDERS STOP ABUSING THEM. Lol, all these people saying here, well if you rebuild your Dex for power.......what if the guy likes his Ranger-Bard-Harper Agent RP?????

Bad Omens wrote:Those whom are responding to this post are driving me crazy!

The OP is saying they want to play a pure Dexer, no sneak dice and no fighter dip,

Since when fighter cannot be a pure dexer? Make fighter 30, go for PTWF.

As pure dex as it gets.

Now if he wanted a swashbuckler that's another story.
----

IMO, if you want specific damage, you multiclass. If you want to RP a very specific idea, you figure out how to survive with it.

Dex build should do fine in a party, by the way.

Bump

Bad Omens wrote:Those whom are responding to this post are driving me crazy!

The OP is saying they want to play a pure Dexer, no sneak dice and no fighter dip, acknowledging that it is extremely difficult on this server due to the institution of lower AC/higher DR Epic Mobs.

So, what is the response of everyone?
Here is how you build for power!?!?!

No, I don't think the DR should be reduced.

I can tell you from personal experience that playing a non-sneak dice dexer on this server in EPIC IS NEAR IMPOSSIBLE without establishing some other way to survive which for me was making it a GISH with high AC and high DR (on top of HIPS).

What galls me, is that the very answer people are giving, building for power, is what makes the team put the screws to the DEX builds. Why is Expose Weakness made such a contentious issue, because Weapon Master/Frenzied Berserkers (don't get me started there) with a dip in Rogue take it to get 100-200+ DMG hit free each round, when if it was only used by Dexers with a minimum Dex of 22, the max free hit would be between 5-18 dmg making it a non-issue! Also, it was asked why deadly defense was given 1d4 instead of 1d6, that is because again, Weapon Master-Frenzied Berserker, can push an extra 1d6 x 4 a Crit to get a possible 24 Dmg on top of 200+ dmg, ala screwing the Dexers whom need that 1d6 x 2. Lol, so instead of saying let's institute again and minimum Dex Req. of 20-22 for Deadly Defense, I can only imagine that it was to enticing for someone to put an extra 1d4 x 4 onto their builds and instituted it.

I say, stop talking of and actually nerfing Dex-based feats and start adding appropriate Dex-Requirements so POWERBUILDERS STOP ABUSING THEM. Lol, all these people saying here, well if you rebuild your Dex for power.......what if the guy likes his Ranger-Bard-Harper Agent RP?????

Bad Omens wrote:Bump

Bad Omens wrote:Those whom are responding to this post are driving me crazy!

The OP is saying they want to play a pure Dexer, no sneak dice and no fighter dip, acknowledging that it is extremely difficult on this server due to the institution of lower AC/higher DR Epic Mobs.

So, what is the response of everyone?
Here is how you build for power!?!?!

No, I don't think the DR should be reduced.

I can tell you from personal experience that playing a non-sneak dice dexer on this server in EPIC IS NEAR IMPOSSIBLE without establishing some other way to survive which for me was making it a GISH with high AC and high DR (on top of HIPS).

What galls me, is that the very answer people are giving, building for power, is what makes the team put the screws to the DEX builds. Why is Expose Weakness made such a contentious issue, because Weapon Master/Frenzied Berserkers (don't get me started there) with a dip in Rogue take it to get 100-200+ DMG hit free each round, when if it was only used by Dexers with a minimum Dex of 22, the max free hit would be between 5-18 dmg making it a non-issue! Also, it was asked why deadly defense was given 1d4 instead of 1d6, that is because again, Weapon Master-Frenzied Berserker, can push an extra 1d6 x 4 a Crit to get a possible 24 Dmg on top of 200+ dmg, ala screwing the Dexers whom need that 1d6 x 2. Lol, so instead of saying let's institute again and minimum Dex Req. of 20-22 for Deadly Defense, I can only imagine that it was to enticing for someone to put an extra 1d4 x 4 onto their builds and instituted it.

I say, stop talking of and actually nerfing Dex-based feats and start adding appropriate Dex-Requirements so POWERBUILDERS STOP ABUSING THEM. Lol, all these people saying here, well if you rebuild your Dex for power.......what if the guy likes his Ranger-Bard-Harper Agent RP?????

Someone asked before, which areas and mosnters have high DR making dex builds unnplayable. Maybe that is the place to start.

Bad Omens, you raised a lot of issues in your post. You compared a dex build to a FB/WM. One can do the same thing with some powerful dex builds that definetely work against mob in any area.

Deadly defence was made 1d4 because that is the damage QC normally goes for for light/finessable weapons.

Bad Omens wrote:**rant omitted as posted three times already**
what if the guy likes his Ranger-Bard-Harper Agent RP?????

Actually if you read the signature it's a Swashbuckler/Shadowdancer and not an Orc-hugger.

mrm3ntalist wrote:
Bad Omens, you raised a lot of issues in your post. You compared a dex build to a FB/WM. One can do the same thing with some powerful dex builds that definetely work against mob in any area.

Deadly defence was made 1d4 because that is the damage QC normally goes for for light/finessable weapons.

Mentalist,

1. I am comparing a dex build to a FB/WM for the explained reasons stated in my post. FB/WM builds more often than not, abuse made for Dex Character Feats to increase their power. Dex builds on the other hand, can not take Increased Multiplier, or Enhanced Power Attack Feats. If I see a Halfling Dexer using Dual-Short Swords and taking 5 levels of FB for Enhanced Power Attack, then I will call them out too but that is tends not to be the trend. I can't say the same for the reverse. Therefore, FB/WM builds put Dexers into compromised positions.

Power built Dexer with no Sneak Dice? What is that? I am curious?

Do you disagree that Weapon Master and FB builds tend to utilize Expose Weakness, a feat meant for Dexterity Builds? Do you disagree that the addition of a Dex requirement might mitigate that issue?

2.) You are right, I did forget that only finessable weapons could be used. THat does mitigate a good portion of Power Attack users. Thank you for clarifying that .

Bad Omens wrote:Those whom are responding to this post are driving me crazy!

The OP is saying they want to play a pure Dexer, no sneak dice and no fighter dip, acknowledging that it is extremely difficult on this server due to the institution of lower AC/higher DR Epic Mobs.

So, what is the response of everyone?
Here is how you build for power!?!?!

No, I don't think the DR should be reduced.

I can tell you from personal experience that playing a non-sneak dice dexer on this server in EPIC IS NEAR IMPOSSIBLE without establishing some other way to survive which for me was making it a GISH with high AC and high DR (on top of HIPS).

What galls me, is that the very answer people are giving, building for power, is what makes the team put the screws to the DEX builds. Why is Expose Weakness made such a contentious issue, because Weapon Master/Frenzied Berserkers (don't get me started there) with a dip in Rogue take it to get 100-200+ DMG hit free each round, when if it was only used by Dexers with a minimum Dex of 22, the max free hit would be between 5-18 dmg making it a non-issue! Also, it was asked why deadly defense was given 1d4 instead of 1d6, that is because again, Weapon Master-Frenzied Berserker, can push an extra 1d6 x 4 a Crit to get a possible 24 Dmg on top of 200+ dmg, ala screwing the Dexers whom need that 1d6 x 2. Lol, so instead of saying let's institute again and minimum Dex Req. of 20-22 for Deadly Defense, I can only imagine that it was to enticing for someone to put an extra 1d4 x 4 onto their builds and instituted it.

I say, stop talking of and actually nerfing Dex-based feats and start adding appropriate Dex-Requirements so POWERBUILDERS STOP ABUSING THEM. Lol, all these people saying here, well if you rebuild your Dex for power.......what if the guy likes his Ranger-Bard-Harper Agent RP?????

Bumpity bump.

The following has been my opinion since this server began. The WM/FB builds are one of the reasons why mobs have more HP than tgey should. The developers raised the HP totals of mobs because WM/FB were destroying everything. It's too bad the WM/FB was not adjusted years ago. How much damage would the FB have caused if it's bonus damage required being in frenzy?

Bad Omens wrote:1. I am comparing a dex build to a FB/WM for the explained reasons stated in my post. FB/WM builds more often than not, abuse made for Dex Character Feats to increase their power. Dex builds on the other hand, can not take Increased Multiplier, or Enhanced Power Attack Feats. If I see a Halfling Dexer using Dual-Short Swords and taking 5 levels of FB for Enhanced Power Attack, then I will call them out too but that is tends not to be the trend. I can't say the same for the reverse. Therefore, FB/WM builds put Dexers into compromised positions.

Dex builds can take increased multiplier. That is on WM7. Of course the cannot take Enchanced power attack ( they can but not able to use it ) since finessable weapons dont work with PA/IPA.

Power built Dexer with no Sneak Dice? What is that? I am curious?

Where do i begin?
- 52AC Ranger/Cavestaler
- 49AC Fighter/WD/WM/SB or tempest
- Monk/Fighter/SB
- Fighter/Bard/Dread Pirate/WD or rogue
Even SB/WM/WD cam work if you avoid sneak immune

The list can go on... There are many very powerful High dex builds.

Do you disagree that Weapon Master and FB builds tend to utilize Expose Weakness, a feat meant for Dexterity Builds?

Yes i disagree. there is no restriction in DEX for expose weakness other than (( look below ))

Do you disagree that the addition of a Dex requirement might mitigate that issue?

A dex makes no sense. Evasion should be a no/Light armor. If one wanted to put a restriction to EW then since EW requires evasion, you can disable EW when wearing medium/heavy armor.

Anyway, i dont think the issue the OP has is about WMs or evasion. It would help to know in which area and which mobs he is having troubles with

Thorsson wrote:

Bad Omens wrote:**rant omitted as posted three times already**
what if the guy likes his Ranger-Bard-Harper Agent RP?????

Actually if you read the signature it's a Swashbuckler/Shadowdancer and not an Orc-hugger. :lol:

Which makes him one feat away from solving his own issue: Expose Weakness. Level 21. With his present build, it solves his present problem.

With some of the feats we recently added, it's even more playable.

Mentalist,

I am not going to quibble with someone trying to wag the dog here.
Mobs were given DR and High HP to combat Powerbuilt DPS builds.
Powerbuilt DPS builds utilize selectable Dex Feats to further their strength.
Dex Feats are dumbed down, or much maligned because of this.
Dex builds, no matter the RP reason, are being told they have to take DPS class dips to compete (you are advocating this yourself for everything save the Cavestalker & Monk Classes).
So, instead of correcting the issue, you are saying they need to join the crowd.

Again, I am not advocating a drop in DR, or HP nerf of mobs.
But, I do think that things can be done to help level the playing field.
Dex Requirements do this.

People were "exploiting" Practiced Spell Caster and Dispel Bugs, they were fixed.
I don't understand why Strength DPS builds being able to take Dex Feats is any different?

Bad Omens wrote:Dex builds, no matter the RP reason, are being told they have to take DPS class dips to compete (you are advocating this yourself for everything save the Cavestalker & Monk Classes).
So, instead of correcting the issue, you are saying they need to join the crowd.

Are Swashbackler, Weapon Master, Tempest, Dervish, Fighter STR only classes?

Bad Omens wrote: Dexer with no Sneak Dice?

Ftr/Wm/Swash/Duelist

Bad Omens wrote: Do you disagree that ...

I think that for RP server argument there's too much attention on mechanical power.

Also, why the heck do those threads always go to hell?

mrm3ntalist wrote:It would help to know in which area and which mobs he is having troubles with

I think he could've hit trouble either in mino dungeon. IIRC minos have some barbarian levels, and if you get there with twin weapons but no weapon specializzation, you'll be in a world of hurt. Lots of first aid kits and life/death fights every time.

Outside of mino barbarians, I don't remember many enemies that resists ALL damage.

Alternatively, it is possible that he ran into undead or ooze.

Undead are vulnerable to one of the melee damage types, same applies to demons, devils, and such.

Typically you'll want to carry several weapon sets. Slashing/Bludgeoning/Silver/ColdIron. That should cover most mobs. If you try to stab a skeleton with a short sword. It will not go well. Removing this kind of damage resistance from undead would be just plain cheating.

Elementals could be problematic, but I don't remember what they're resistant to.

Also, Hill Giant chief had some sort of strange resistance on it.

Also, magical enemies love casting stoneskin, so when THAT happens, you'll need to drain its resistance, unless you land a critical (which should easily go over the DR for a WM).

mrm3ntalist wrote:

Bad Omens wrote:Dex builds, no matter the RP reason, are being told they have to take DPS class dips to compete (you are advocating this yourself for everything save the Cavestalker & Monk Classes).
So, instead of correcting the issue, you are saying they need to join the crowd.

Are Swashbackler, Weapon Master, Tempest, Dervish, Fighter STR only classes?

Read closely Mentalist, I said DPS. That means Sneak Dice, Critical Multipliers, or Double Stat DPS modifiers, or what ever else is meant to increase DPS.

Bad Omens wrote: Read closely Mentalist, I said DPS. That means Sneak Dice, Critical Multipliers, or Double Stat DPS modifiers, or what ever else is meant to increase DPS.

It ain't a MMO. Why are you discussing DPS?
If you want power, you maximize it. If you want RP build, you suck it up and find a way to survive.

Lots of perfectly capable builds won't be soloing bosses. Ftr 30, for example. Heck, even rogue 30 (no hips) is very likely to have hard time.