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Re: A Formal Apology.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:08 pm
by kkrazlite
trogers2 wrote:Flasmix wrote:An apology is not enough Zeno. You must give reparations to the Orcs for the past negligence of the 'civilized folk'. I will accept a donation of all your gold and magic gear and then we'll consider you even.
haha! But really, I loved Zeno, and if I am honest - it wasn't his fault the fight broke out in FAL, the 'good' characters were the ones who attacked him first (Unprovoked), and naturally Zeno would just defend himself.
I would argue that the server is dark enough already with all the other NPC creatures and monsters roaming around, but that all falls very flat without DM aid, thus player characters really help bring that threat forward.
It is not easy to play an evil toon, and I have a lot of respect for you Zeno for trying, but you don't need to be powerful to be evil - I am working on an evil character myself that will operate more like palpatine (star wars) + Sherlock Holmes, his bio is still a draft in my head but i'm sure he can stir things up and keep things exciting without going on a killing spree.
Zeno really added a tense atmosphere to the community and was the talk of the server for a good few days - we need more exciting RP like this in the game, so Zeno should get huge praise for trying.
Thank you for your appreciation on what i was trying to do. As you stated its not easy playing an evil aligned character on this server. And that is definitely true with the vast difference in numbers from alignment vs alignment. I had first thought of the idea of making Zeno because at first i had a character by the name Elmon Lemami (Long time ago) And on him is where i got my first taste of "Evil RP" when Bazu (A lich from an old plot line event.) Corrupted his mind and made him do very shady things and make some crazy decisions. I had missed that feeling of playing a dark toon and i realized that there were little no none evil characters in the server. (Aside from the ones that work in the shadows.) So alas Zeno was born to bring terror and fear to the server! But as you can see that plan had to be cut short due to me making some fool-hearted dicisions as a character that the players and the DM's viewed as me breaking the rules OOC rather then breaking the law IC.
Re: A Formal Apology.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:13 pm
by Kanada
This is another example of how bgtscc has fallen from its former highs. Basically any evil character, or faction, will be ground down over time by DMS out to stifle conflict, and players who don't want to see any evil triumph. That I'd why evil is silent on the coast apart from npc factions somewhere out there. The evil gains left player side are shadows of themselves.
Re: A Formal Apology.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:18 pm
by xLegionx
"Hey even though you and your pals knocked out my paladin and burned my patrol man near the boareskyr bridge it was fun role playing for me and no hard feelings are present. We all were just role playing our characters and role playing and having fun is all that matters. I do hope to see evil player factions in the near faction but rather than having too much open pvp across the map that they could work with dms and other player made factions to create fun and memorable events."
Re: A Formal Apology.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:31 pm
by flipside43
xLegionx wrote:"I do hope to see evil player factions in the near faction but rather than having too much open pvp across the map that they could work with dms and other player made factions to create fun and memorable events."
I am quoting this for truth. I've been advocating this for a long time. I've played both sides of the fence and I have no idea why everyone thinks evil is so difficult. Look at the changes to the server over the past years. Darkhold was put in, the Trade Way south of BG is no longer considered Fist patrolled and is instead considered "wilds". The northern expansion was put in and it all nearly "wilds". Soubar was put in and very recently set up to be a shady starting location alternative to BG. If you get it out of your mind that evil RP = PvP and instead start creating collaborative roleplay and intrigue, both sides will flourish. But such things take trust and respect for each other and continual rule breaking to get wins, does not give it.
Re: A Formal Apology.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:41 pm
by Shad
Its sad Zeno story ended so abruptly.
It was not fun for some, but for some other it was.
Re: A Formal Apology.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:53 pm
by Flasmix
There are evil factions in the world... Mostly in the UD and when problems arise the typical response is "Well you shouldn't be on the surface"
The UD has become the child in the attic that the parents feed a bucket of fish heads to and try to ignore. Any competent evil faction on the surface is forced to play nice otherwise they get fish heads too.
Re: A Formal Apology.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:19 pm
by kkrazlite
Perhaps an annual event that happens every few months that puts the UD against the surface?
Almost like the old events such as BG vs Roaring-shore.
That would be interesting and would give more incentive toward people traveling to the other. Maybe to make a hidden alliance, spying and information gathering, kid-napping, assassinations?
It would surely create a presence of danger between the two area's and alignments. (Alignment vs Culture vs Faction vs Guild) This creates a pyramid of interesting concepts and makes things more tense when two or more characters from these different trees are in the same area or competing for the same objective.
Re: A Formal Apology.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:36 pm
by NeOmega
I met Zeno twice, with two different characters.
The apology seems a bit passive -aggressive... ...but anyways, my meeting were fairly inconsequential both times.
Although my necromancer was in awe, and followed you into the temple of the dead... ..until she got set on fire and had to run out.
Re: A Formal Apology.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:41 pm
by V'rass
You dont have to apologize Zeno. If some people are not happy with your rp and your rp has not been offensive in some ooc way then too bad for them. Everyone is free to rp their character as they want as long as they follow the rules. Your rp of Zeno fits perfectly how a priest of Talos would act if such existed. And dont let them tell you off for powerbuilding... there is no law against it on the server so if they dont like it too bad. Keep up the excellent rp and dont worry about the naysayers.
Re: A Formal Apology.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:13 pm
by Ghost
Kanada wrote:This is another example of how bgtscc has fallen from its former highs. Basically any evil character, or faction, will be ground down over time by DMS out to stifle conflict, and players who don't want to see any evil triumph. That I'd why evil is silent on the coast apart from npc factions somewhere out there. The evil gains left player side are shadows of themselves.
We don't stifle conflict in RP unless there is metagaming or other rulebreaking involved.
And trust me, from a DM's point of view, the evil groups are not "silent" on the Coast. But part of being successful evil, at least in intrigue, means that they don't go out of their way to advertise their atrocities.
But I just wanted to clear up this seemingly common misconception that the DMs are trying to stifle conflict: We don't. We stifle rulebreaking.
Re: A Formal Apology.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:31 pm
by kkrazlite
See but that's the problem DM Ghost. There are strict rules in the server, this is correct and people must follow them. But there are people who want to be "Rule breakers" in the server. Criminals, Bandits, Tyrants, Warlords, Smugglers and Theifs.
And with the lack of DM's available to "Show coincidences" to those who are seeking this "Wanted Criminal" role in the server. OOC banter stirs up and people consider this type of role play Breaking the Rules rather then Breaking the Law.
This is one of the main problems and why people feel inclined to either play good / natural. Or play a hidden evil side character instead of making it public that their character's intentions are evil / chaotic. And why people who have tried the "Rule Breaker" role are upset.
Hopefully when you recruit more DM's this will be resolved.
Re: A Formal Apology.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:43 pm
by Ghost
There is a very clear difference in being an OOC rule breaker and an IC rule breaker. What I was talking about was the former.
To clarify: We do not stifle IC conflict. We stifle OOC rulebreaking.
Re: A Formal Apology.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:34 pm
by Boddynock
DM Ghost wrote:There is a very clear difference in being an OOC rule breaker and an IC rule breaker. What I was talking about was the former.
To clarify: We do not stifle IC conflict. We stifle OOC rulebreaking.
The intentions of the DM team may be all well and good, but the idea that it is more difficult to play evil than good doesn't come from nowhere, nor does the idea that the DMs make it harder to RP evil than to RP good, or evil just chaotic. I have seen and heard claims like this over and over again from numerous sources. Perhaps a correction would be that the DM team doesn't intentionally make things that way, but they still do, or that feeling/opinion would not stick around so tenaciously.
This is just a suggestion, but perhaps instead of not trying to make things harder for that sort of RP, the DMs should try not to make things harder for that type of RP. The distinction seems small, as you just switch the order of two words, but it is anything but small. I feel like if the DM team were more proactive in this sort of RP the players that got into it would step on fewer toes because there would be expectations up front about what is ok and what is not.
From what I have read here, it seems like Zeno broke no server rules, and was made to feel like he had to apologize for role-playing a character the way his character sheet dictates he should be role-played, as a servant of chaos and fury (AKA a Stormlord of Talos). I feel sorry for Zeno for putting time and effort into a character concept that, despite any amount of research or reading the server rules he could have done, he then had to kill off for no reason other than other people didn't like it. This is, as many people like to point out, a collaborative story telling experience...that means you don't get to write all the chapters yourself but they still go in the book.
I think the DM team forgets that just as much as the players sometimes.
Re: A Formal Apology.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:46 pm
by Dagesh
kkrazlite wrote:Hello everyone that being man, women, alien, animal, or inspect. My name is kkrazlite but you can call me Pepper. And i am writing this post on be-half of a formal apology to any and all who were effected by my character concept and rp/pvp shenanigans with my character Zeno Zelot. The DM's as well as other players seemed to have been disapproving of the way I role-played and categorized Zeno in that him being a Chaotic Evil, Power House, Talosian Warlord was not a great idea apparently. Especially in the fact of PVP incidents where Zeno would usually be pursued by the Holy / Good orders but usually end up losing or "gimped" out of their hands for justice simply because of the sheer strength in the build of Zeno which made him even more disapproving incidents to those who did not see it fair that Zeno could simply walk around and do what ever he wanted because only a select few (PC) characters could match / defeat him.
If you have been paying attention to the forums you would have officially found out that Zeno had been slain in a fierce battle between the Black Orc Savages and The Phoenix Company. (Special Thanks to both groups for participating in my event for that.) I am officially declaring that as a perma-death for Zeno and had distributed his DM plot items to the victors who had slain him. Any acts of Role-Playing to Revive Zeno will be declined and a poll will be posted in the future for claim of his Talosian Spear. (Ill probably do a auction for it or something.)
Again i am very sorry to those who had to put up with my rp and concept for Zeno Zelot. And i would only hope that it does not effect the future content, concepts and characters i proceed to create in the future.
Sorry and Salutations,
Pepper (Zeno Zelot)
This is a weird apology. It's like saying, "I'm sorry you can't handle what I did."
I'm sorry to see a perma-kill. If that's your choice, so be it.
Re: A Formal Apology.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:02 pm
by DM Galatea
Evil players.
Send in player requests. You don't do it often enough.
Just do it. Seriously. You'll make ADMs like me ecstatic because we can, for once, DM without a risk of conflicts of interest.
Do it.
DO IT.