Thoughts on PG-13 rule

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Rhifox
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Re: Thoughts on PG-13 rule

Unread post by Rhifox »

Steve wrote:I personally am not interested in exploring a sexually charged role-play in by D&D soup bowl. Though I like my RP hot, savory and with spice, I prefer to get my ya-ya's in RL, not by staring at some digitally buxom blonde in skimpy full plate...played by a Dude. No thanks.
You can get your friendships, drama, stories, and everything else in RL too, so why do you RP?

Characters engaging in sexual intercourse should have nothing to do with getting your "ya-ya's", and even less about who or what the player playing them is. It should be about the character wanting to get their "ya-ya's". Characters are people, and people engage in intimate relations and occasionally have sex.

ERP is like any other RP. Bad RPers handle it badly, good RPers handle it well. There's nothing bad about ERP by itself, only in how it is handled by the players engaging in it.
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Re: Thoughts on PG-13 rule

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Time spent describing pelvic thrusts in gory detail could be instead used to develop your character. Say what you may about it, but erp aside from very specific exceptions (an assassin waiting for their mark to lower their guard and kill them during the act, or a husband/wife laying with their spouse for one last time before going to war for example) is self-gratification and offers nothing to the overall narrative of the server.
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Re: Thoughts on PG-13 rule

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Rhifox wrote:...so why do you RP?
In order go into a dungeon, slay the dragon, steal the treasure, gain a magic item, go back to the ale house, and tell grand stories of the adventure.

Do I also need to add to that knocking boots with the house serving wench, or taking my time to layer adjective upon steamy adjective upon a digital representation of a Player?

Or, kidnap the orphans, place them in chains, laugh at their labor, cut off their finger for punishment if they stumble, bet among my minions which child will suffer death first, and bitch slap and arse-hole that argues with me.

Oh...does that go beyond Teen Rating? Or better yet, DOES IT NEED TO GO BEYOND THAT, or have I already gone too far with enhancing my RP?!?


But yeah, simply put: there are OTHER SERVERS OUT THERE FOR ERP. I don't think it's too hard to find them, and too much to ask that anyone that wants to ERP, goes there.

I am NOT saying ERP is wrong in and of itself—though I personally do not wish to see/hear/know of it—but just because it IS not wrong in and of itself, does not mean BGTSCC needs it.

EDIT: and yeah, what Whistler said.

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Re: Thoughts on PG-13 rule

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The Whistler wrote:Time spent describing pelvic thrusts in gory detail could be instead used to develop your character. Say what you may about it, but erp aside from very specific exceptions (an assassin waiting for their mark to lower their guard and kill them during the act, or a husband/wife laying with their spouse for one last time before going to war for example) is self-gratification and offers nothing to the overall narrative of the server.
Looting after every reset is self-gratification and offers nothing to the overall narrative of the server, but that doesn't stop people from doing it. Same thing with muling, grinding, and many other things that people do regularly on BG.

Sex does not exist in a vacuum. It is not two characters entering a room and suddenly and without warning getting it on. In whatever RL encounters you have been in, do you just walk up to your partner and go 'hey, let's bang' and get it on right there, and then leave the room immediately after it's done? There is rarely a distinct line between romanace and the actual erotic portion. Sexual encounters often entails hours of interactive RP, actual, character building RP, before (or, occasionally, alongside) physical attention or the removal of clothes.

With an ERP rule, what is often done is that actual, good RP has to be cut off unimmersively right in the middle. Two characters engaging in romantic, character developing and entirely PG moments for hours, having to suddenly go OOC to say, "okay, gotta stop here, breaking the rules now" when an arbitrary "threshold" is reached. That does not benefit character development. It stops it.
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Re: Thoughts on PG-13 rule

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The Whistler wrote:Time spent describing pelvic thrusts in gory detail could be instead used to develop your character. Say what you may about it, but erp aside from very specific exceptions (an assassin waiting for their mark to lower their guard and kill them during the act, or a husband/wife laying with their spouse for one last time before going to war for example) is self-gratification and offers nothing to the overall narrative of the server.
This and this...
Steve Crazypants wrote:In order go into a dungeon, slay the dragon, steal the treasure, gain a magic item, go back to the ale house, and tell grand stories of the adventure.

Do I also need to add to that knocking boots with the house serving wench, or taking my time to layer adjective upon steamy adjective upon a digital representation of a Player?

Or, kidnap the orphans, place them in chains, laugh at their labor, cut off their finger for punishment if they stumble, bet among my minions which child will suffer death first, and bitch slap and arse-hole that argues with me.

Oh...does that go beyond Teen Rating? Or better yet, DOES IT NEED TO GO BEYOND THAT, or have I already gone too far with enhancing my RP?!?


But yeah, simply put: there are OTHER SERVERS OUT THERE FOR ERP. I don't think it's too hard to find them, and too much to ask that anyone that wants to ERP, goes there.

I am NOT saying ERP is wrong in and of itself—though I personally do not wish to see/hear/know of it—but just because it IS not wrong in and of itself, does not mean BGTSCC needs it.
Edit: What's wrong with "fading to black" where something happened and it sure was intimate but, hey, people didn't have to actually watch it for character development.
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Re: Thoughts on PG-13 rule

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You are partially correct. Since the server offers no other avenue of accumulating wealth (something I've complained about in the past), looting is sometimes necessary to achieve IC goals, like building guild halls. Can you (do-me) a guild hall into existence ? That'd be a sight to see.

Sex in nwn2 does exist in vacuum from my experience. I've seen servers devolve into online brothels due to a dearth of DM plots. Players do get online just to 'get it on', then log immediately after. I know, because I've been guilty of it. Also, I do not consider ERP to be an essential constituent of romantic roleplay. If you feel it enriches your roleplay experience, you can always do it over skype like Steve suggested. Opening the door to potentially dozens of other players who ERP solely for self-gratification isn't worth a revision of the rules, at least in my opinion.
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Re: Thoughts on PG-13 rule

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Steve wrote:In order go into a dungeon, slay the dragon, steal the treasure, gain a magic item, go back to the ale house, and tell grand stories of the adventure.
I RP for character interactions. Friendships, rivalries, enemies, romance. Watching characters react to moments of great joy, or moments of absolute terror. Seeing how they develop over months and years from their many interactions with other people and the events of the region. Immersing deeply into the characters, and living their lives fully. Sometimes, those interactions lead into intimate encounters. Because characters are people, and so have all the desires and needs that real people do.
Do I also need to add to that knocking boots with the house serving wench
If it's just the 'house serving wench', then no, I don't see any point in engaging in RPing an actual sexual encounter. There's no relations between the two characters, there's unlikely to be lasting or significant development from the encounter, there's probably limited character interaction. There's no reason to play it out. It's something that is best left in the background, FtB'ed, because it doesn't advance the story in any way. But then, I'd also say the same thing for randomly going out to a dungeon and slaying some monsters, when there's no good IC reason for the characters to go there.

But if it's two characters who have been pursuing each other for many months, who have steadily grown into friends, and then lovers, and eventually, finally, have an encounter that happens to turn physical (unplanned, typically)? Then I can see merit in RPing the encounter out rather than jarringly stopping it halfway through.
The Whistler wrote:Sex in nwn2 does exist in vacuum from my experience. I've seen servers devolve into online brothels due to a dearth of DM plots. Players do get online just to 'get it on', then log immediately after. I know, because I've been guilty of it. Also, I do not feel that ERP is an essential constituent of romantic roleplay. If you feel it enriches your roleplay experience, you can always do it over skype like Steve suggested.
When it is like that, it is a fault of the players. I never said that all ERP everywhere is good. You're right, a lot of it isn't. Hell, most of it isn't. I can't stand servers that seem explicitly built for that purpose, or the fact that every MMO has a Darknest channel. But I see it as a case just like any kind of RP: it can be handled right or it can be handled wrong. "Players getting online just to 'get it on' and then log immediately after" is certainly handling it wrong. My belief though, is that the players who are inclined to do that, aren't going to be any better in any other RP they do.

When I think of appropriate ERP, I think of the occasional physical encounter coming from a longterm romance between two characters for whom 99% of their RP is of a non-sexual nature. Where an intimate encounter might happen once or twice a year and happen entirely unplanned with no OOC prompting. In that, an OOC rule often harms the character development, and breaks immersion.

Ultimately, immersion is what I care about. While I've done ERP in the past in other RP communities, it's not something I have done very often or am even really interested in. Most of my characters aren't even all that interested in (or good at) romance. But I'm an immersionist RPer. I want to get immersed in my character, and immersed in the world. I dislike things that exist solely to pull me out of the experience. Any rule that tells people they cannot RP something because of a purely out-of-character reason is anathema to me, personally.
Opening the door to potentially dozens of other players who ERP solely for self-gratification isn't worth a revision of the rules, at least in my opinion.
This is an argument I see and can agree with. I personally don't like the rule. But I can see the purpose for it, and what it is trying to prevent, and I agree with that. It's the usual way of things, that some bad apples ruin things for everyone else. When most people here think of R-rated content, they probably think of mature stories where events are gritty and realistic and are improved because of it. But because there's some people who would turn it into Pornhub, rules are put into place to restrict it. I've personally no desire to campaign for a rule change. I'm just being a devils-advocate here, since the topic has been raised.
Last edited by Rhifox on Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thoughts on PG-13 rule

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Bad Omens wrote:I don't want it changed.
Young people, even children, have access to purchase this game.
You don't know who is on the other side of that RP.

PG-13 is just fine!
The Whistler wrote:Time spent describing pelvic thrusts in gory detail could be instead used to develop your character. Say what you may about it, but erp aside from very specific exceptions (an assassin waiting for their mark to lower their guard and kill them during the act, or a husband/wife laying with their spouse for one last time before going to war for example) is self-gratification and offers nothing to the overall narrative of the server.
+1
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Re: Thoughts on PG-13 rule

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What defines immersion? Having someone write a novel about sweat dripping and smells of person's parts or whatnot is detailed but not necessary for immersion. Deep relationships don't need graphic details to be immersive.
In a game like this, it's all about pixels representing a character. Text provides language and emotion. What you might see as a RP roadblock isn't lack of immersion. It's for players to say "things got intimate" without having to write it out for you, the other guy, and the DM who stumbles on the situation to see. Immersion doesn't mean all the details need to be there. Immersion means that we appreciate the RP for what it is, limits and all, while understanding that not all the graphic details are necessary. Like I said, fade to black is just as immersive.
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Re: Thoughts on PG-13 rule

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I personally abhor descriptive, graphic torture. I don't want it. I don't want to take part in it, I don't want my character to be a victim of it. I don't want to witness it. I don't want to hear descriptions of what has been done to friends of my character.

I don't mind ERP so long as I don't have to participate or observe.

I like swearing. But I do fine without. Besides, there are lots of Realms-specific swearing that is vastly more appropriate for the setting and is allowed.
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Re: Thoughts on PG-13 rule

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Most (all?) video games come with a disclaimer that the game's ESRB rating is subject to change during online play. Doesn't it seem impossible to perfectly enforce this rule? Just keep it out of sight and mind for those of us who rather focus on other facets of our characters than what's between their legs.

From my own experience ERP happens and it's a take it or leave it type of thing.
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Re: Thoughts on PG-13 rule

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Young Werther wrote:Most (all?) video games come with a disclaimer that the game's ESRB rating is subject to change during online play. Doesn't it seem impossible to perfectly enforce this rule? Just keep it out of sight and mind for those of us who rather focus on other facets of our characters than what's between their legs.

From my own experience ERP happens and it's a take it or leave it type of thing.
+1

ERP happens, everyone knows it happens, and everyone knows if you get busted then your busted. Personally, I don't care if everyone ERPs but me, I have had plenty of relationship RP, including sexual encounters, without them being descriptive and I don't feel like it stifled my experience because I don't come here for that.

If that is something you feel like you need for your character, well, I suggest forum RP, in very very very private messages, lol. Although if it came to a vote, I would vote for lifting the rating for the whole "more descriptive violence" reasons.
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Re: Thoughts on PG-13 rule

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Everyone shoots heroine so it's cool, bro.


It's the same logic. Just do it so long as no one knows. It makes rules worthless.

So, do it somewhere else or don't do it here. That's the better and truer logic.
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Re: Thoughts on PG-13 rule

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Dagesh wrote:Everyone shoots heroine so it's cool, bro.


It's the same logic. Just do it so long as no one knows. It makes rules worthless.

So, do it somewhere else or don't do it here. That's the better and truer logic.
Yes, let's relate text that only some people would find offensive with an extremely addictive opiate known to ruin people's lives, that's not apples and oranges at all.
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Re: Thoughts on PG-13 rule

Unread post by trogers2 »

Thanks for all your views on this guys, the general vibe I'm getting here is people don't want ERP thrown in their faces, and thus think the PG 13 rule should stay, which is a very valid reason, though I don't think this will be an issue as (like RL) you won't find people having sex in FAL by the campfire, and i'm sure rules can keep this in check, in any case it is nice to have the option there.

Brothels, sex slaves, sex toys etc... I think this is where it could (will) do damage; if the PG 13 rule was upped - I don't think it would go that far and honestly, I don't think much would need to change.

The people who want the rating 'upped' are arguing it can enhance RP and make the server darker, and allow for more 'violence' a good point as well, our setting is very dark and gritty - and some extra (not too much) freedom on this can only do great things for DMs and players alike.

Rhifox has put across a few good points regarding character development but as long as it is done privately I don't see the issue.
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I don't think this would be too hard, the problem would be changing a rule everyone is famillar with and used to - it'll ruffle some feathers for sure, and with all the updates and the state of the server it'll only cause more confusion, short term though - this is the wrong timing for this (if it did happen)

Also, thanks for keeping this civil guys.
Last edited by trogers2 on Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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