FAI tied thumbs rule

[TheLier]

And travelling mages don't always walk around with a large group of servants.

And as we already have things like the Slayers here,

On these two points given to sway the discussion:

Mages are not constantly casting spells all the time, either. I refer you to this.

The FAI is "...a safe haven for travellers." That is known, IC lore. You think that is Lore when arsehats want to brandish swords and cast Bigbys every damn time another PC steps on their new keds?!?

Bringing up the Slayers as a means to devalue the Lore of the Forgotten Realms or the Server, is arguing apples with oranges, mate. Maybe I can ask you just take a read here, and see how the Server and the Staff are trying to honor Lore, when they can? And if at sometimes they fail in some aspects, does that mean every other thing needs a challenge??

This is not a small thing, this is very real if you think about it seriously. It was not an argument to devalue the Server lore, but to sure that it does not stick to it in every aspect, that was a precedent of the Staff directly going against it, I only meant to point out, that in my opinion, this would be a sensible change.

And again, when did I say that there should be no punsihment for casting or such? I'm only talking about the "thumb rule", and the fact that it is not realistic, as it makes wizards, again as I said many times, helpless, unless, as I pointed out, they are in the company of servants, and most travelling mages are not like that. It is safe haven for travellers, afterall.

Please tell me why this is not the case. If you need I'm willing to test it IRL how hard to:

- To Lift hard objects (armor maybe or a sword?)
- Open doors
- Trying to lessen the damage caused to your own body if you trip over (that might hurt, I might not do it actually)
- Basic human actions (like, getting rid of "waste" or dressing up to "robes")

And that is just from the top of my head. Keep in mind, that with a thumb tied to your belt, so close means that you basicly have one arm only.

The main point of mine, is that it makes little sense that things are like this. For the above resons, I do not think that it would work like this. It does not seem sensible.

[Steve]

Keep in mind, that with a thumb tied to your belt, so close means that you basicly have one arm only.

I think that, when your PC needs to take a poo, Bentley and his Guards would be willing to let the thumb be gloriously released from it's "symbolic" tied-up-ness.

This literal interpretation of having a thumb LASHED to string constantly while in the FAI for fear of punishment and death, is really taking it farther than it needs to go.

[TheLier]

Keep in mind, that with a thumb tied to your belt, so close means that you basicly have one arm only.

I think that, when your PC needs to take a poo, Bentley and his Guards would be willing to let the thumb be gloriously released from it's "symbolic" tied-up-ness.

This literal interpretation of having a thumb LASHED to string constantly while in the FAI for fear of punishment and death, is really taking it farther than it needs to go.

But if you don't have to tie it there all the time, there is not much point of it anyways. Why? Becuse then there must be excuses for trading with the merchant etc. Now, if that is allowed, the casters can use that if they want to cause havoc.

This would benefit nobody in that case.

So either it is strictly enforced, or it is nothing but an annoyance.

This is strictly my opinion tho.

[Steve]

Now, if that is allowed, the casters can use that if they want to cause havoc.

From an in-character standpoint, it is allowed!! Do you not see that? There is nothing but a known, IC law...not a rigid, OOC mechanical aspect that controls the Player.

Do you not see that just because there is an IC Law, that your Player Character doesn't have to obey it? They just have to deal with the consequences of their actions.

[TheLier]

Now, if that is allowed, the casters can use that if they want to cause havoc.

From an in-character standpoint, it is allowed!! Do you not see that? There is nothing but a known, IC law...not a rigid, OOC mechanical aspect that controls the Player.

Do you not see that just because there is an IC Law, that your Player Character doesn't have to obey it? They just have to deal with the consequences of their actions.

Steve, could you please comment on the whole post, and not one one line only?

The whole debate is about the fact that the existence of the rule is not sensible. Please tell me, what is the exact purpose of this law. If you want to cause havoc you can. If Bentley wanted no casting, he would simply construct an anti-magic zone. He sure has favors to call from mages.

What does this rule do? Becuse really, it only punishes wizards, for being ones, without doing anything against those who wish to cause havoc. An anti-magic zone is simply much better. Heck, you could even exclude the temple so things can go on there fine. It is possible.

[Steve]

Subject: THE LAWS OF THE LANDS (IC)

Hidden: show

FRIENDLY ARM INN AND ENVIRONS

Proclamation of the Friendly Arm Inn

By Bentley & Gellana Mirrorshade - consorted by the clergy of Garl Glittergold

Tramp, traveller and peddler. We welcome you within the walls of the Friendly Arm and its inn. The keep is regimented by a cadre of able guardsmen, tasked with upholding the soon-to-be mentioned laws of the keep. They are here both to assist and protect you while visiting, and to keep lawbreakers at bay.

The Friendly Arm Inn offers a safe haven along the dangerous Trade Way. The road itself enjoys the occassional Flaming Fist patrol from up Baldur's way. But that alone does little to make roadside campsites safe places of respite. Therefor we, as hosts, urge you to find shelter within our guarded walls. What occurs outside our walls does not concern us, lest they are the fruits of an open assault upon our keep. We are a business, however, and so will not allow brawling right before our gates which could harm paying customers. ((OOC: This means PVP at or before the FAI gate should be DM supervised as Bentley's guards will intervene to protect his business))

The laws of the keep are simple, efficient and subject to common sense:
-One may not perform acts of skullduglery, theft or similar knavish deeds.
-One must tie one's thumb to her belt if one finds herself to be of the arcane profession, be she a hedgewizard, archmage or similar.
-One may not perform acts of brutish force. Drunken rowdies, unsanctioned acts of pugilism and ne'er-do-wells will be warded or evicted from the premises.
-All arms must be sheathed or put away in such a manner that they do not immediatly threathen others.
-Profane speech heralding the next coming of the Lord of Murder is also not-done.
-Facial features may not be hidden behind a scarf, mask or face-shield while within our walls.
-Never may one enforce the laws of the keep without the involvement of the Friendly Arm's guardsmen.

Those who dare break these well-established rules shall be subject to punishment in the following forms:
-A fine of five-hundred gold coins.
-Eviction from the premises, followed by a day-and-night ban from the keep.
-Banishment from the Friendly Arm Inn.

If the keep's guards find themselves opposed or threatened by the law-breaker, they are free to use their pike-and-arms to bring down the culprit offender.

We wish you an enjoyable stay and hope that you will respect the house's laws.

Welcome to the Friendly Arm Inn!

///Credit to DM Xzar for the Proclamation.

Edited 22 January 2015///

-One must tie one's thumb to her belt if one finds herself to be of the arcane profession, be she a hedgewizard, archmage or similar.
-All arms must be sheathed or put away in such a manner that they do not immediatly threathen others.
-Facial features may not be hidden behind a scarf, mask or face-shield while within our walls.

From the above selection of IC Laws, proclaimed by Bentley and upheld by his Guardsmen, only 1 is OOC mechanically enforced, in order to enter the FAI courtyard. However, once past that OOC mechanic, a PC could put on a hooded mask.

I disagree with you. The IC proclamation by Bentley is completely sensible. He, being a business gnome-man, realizes that there must be a neutral, safe and conforming environment for him to maintain an healthy business.

The exact purpose of his IC proclamation is to provide the above environment. Does it always work, is it De Facto, does it hinder our PC's RP? No. Emphatically, no.

The FAI proclamation of Rules stated by Bentley is something our PCs RP with or against, to their consequence.

It is NOT that Bentley wants no casting—he himself is an illusionist of minor reknown—it is that, in my opinion as an observer of Canon Lore, that he wants to provide "...a safe haven for travellers." How do you do that in a region—the Sword Coast—that is known for brigandry, chaotic and roaming hordes of humanoids, etc.???

If you pick out on the "thumbs tied" rule, then yes, it does only "punish" wizards. Duh. But there are also rules that "punish" swordsmen. And hooded bandit-types. OMG!!! Yet...and wait for it...these are ONLY IC RULES and by no means stop any PC from causing havoc...although, their are consequences that are rather dependable, from those actions. So whether the Rules stop any one PC from doing what is in their nature...that is left up to the individual PC and the Player behind it.

[TheLier]

Subject: THE LAWS OF THE LANDS (IC)

Hidden: show

FRIENDLY ARM INN AND ENVIRONS

Proclamation of the Friendly Arm Inn

By Bentley & Gellana Mirrorshade - consorted by the clergy of Garl Glittergold

Tramp, traveller and peddler. We welcome you within the walls of the Friendly Arm and its inn. The keep is regimented by a cadre of able guardsmen, tasked with upholding the soon-to-be mentioned laws of the keep. They are here both to assist and protect you while visiting, and to keep lawbreakers at bay.

The Friendly Arm Inn offers a safe haven along the dangerous Trade Way. The road itself enjoys the occassional Flaming Fist patrol from up Baldur's way. But that alone does little to make roadside campsites safe places of respite. Therefor we, as hosts, urge you to find shelter within our guarded walls. What occurs outside our walls does not concern us, lest they are the fruits of an open assault upon our keep. We are a business, however, and so will not allow brawling right before our gates which could harm paying customers. ((OOC: This means PVP at or before the FAI gate should be DM supervised as Bentley's guards will intervene to protect his business))

The laws of the keep are simple, efficient and subject to common sense:
-One may not perform acts of skullduglery, theft or similar knavish deeds.
-One must tie one's thumb to her belt if one finds herself to be of the arcane profession, be she a hedgewizard, archmage or similar.
-One may not perform acts of brutish force. Drunken rowdies, unsanctioned acts of pugilism and ne'er-do-wells will be warded or evicted from the premises.
-All arms must be sheathed or put away in such a manner that they do not immediatly threathen others.
-Profane speech heralding the next coming of the Lord of Murder is also not-done.
-Facial features may not be hidden behind a scarf, mask or face-shield while within our walls.
-Never may one enforce the laws of the keep without the involvement of the Friendly Arm's guardsmen.

Those who dare break these well-established rules shall be subject to punishment in the following forms:
-A fine of five-hundred gold coins.
-Eviction from the premises, followed by a day-and-night ban from the keep.
-Banishment from the Friendly Arm Inn.

If the keep's guards find themselves opposed or threatened by the law-breaker, they are free to use their pike-and-arms to bring down the culprit offender.

We wish you an enjoyable stay and hope that you will respect the house's laws.

Welcome to the Friendly Arm Inn!

///Credit to DM Xzar for the Proclamation.

Edited 22 January 2015///

-One must tie one's thumb to her belt if one finds herself to be of the arcane profession, be she a hedgewizard, archmage or similar.
-All arms must be sheathed or put away in such a manner that they do not immediatly threathen others.
-Facial features may not be hidden behind a scarf, mask or face-shield while within our walls.

From the above selection of IC Laws, proclaimed by Bentley and upheld by his Guardsmen, only 1 is OOC mechanically enforced, in order to enter the FAI courtyard. However, once past that OOC mechanic, a PC could put on a hooded mask.

I disagree with you. The IC proclamation by Bentley is completely sensible. He, being a business gnome-man, realizes that there must be a neutral, safe and conforming environment for him to maintain an healthy business.

The exact purpose of his IC proclamation is to provide the above environment. Does it always work, is it De Facto, does it hinder our PC's RP? No. Emphatically, no.

The FAI proclamation of Rules stated by Bentley is something our PCs RP with or against, to their consequence.

It is NOT that Bentley wants no casting—he himself is an illusionist of minor reknown—it is that, in my opinion as an observer of Canon Lore, that he wants to provide "...a safe haven for travellers." How do you do that in a region—the Sword Coast—that is known for brigandry, chaotic and roaming hordes of humanoids, etc.???

If you pick out on the "thumbs tied" rule, then yes, it does only "punish" wizards. Duh. But there are also rules that "punish" swordsmen. And hooded bandit-types. OMG!!! Yet...and wait for it...these are ONLY IC RULES and by no means stop any PC from causing havoc...although, their are consequences that are rather dependable, from those actions. So whether the Rules stop any one PC from doing what is in their nature...that is left up to the individual PC and the Player behind it.

In you opinion leaving your weapons and such, at the gates, is equal to not being able to use one of your arms? Becuse I think there is a pretty big difference there.

Leaving your weapons does not hinder anything, but your ability to fight, tieing a thumb on the other hand (what a pun) hinders you in most actions.

[Flasmix]

Leaving your weapons does not hinder anything, but your ability to fight, tieing a thumb on the other hand (what a pun) hinders you in most actions.

Especially ERP. It's just awkward then.

[Steve]

In you opinion leaving your weapons and such, at the gates, is equal to not being able to use one of your arms? Becuse I think there is a pretty big difference there.

I don't have to make an opinion on this, because...it isn't being asked of my toons!!!

[Steve]

Leaving your weapons does not hinder anything, but your ability to fight, tieing a thumb on the other hand (what a pun) hinders you in most actions.

Especially ERP. It's just awkward then.

Finally...someone REALIZED why Bentley made up these rulez....hahahaha!

[TheLier]

In you opinion leaving your weapons and such, at the gates, is equal to not being able to use one of your arms? Becuse I think there is a pretty big difference there.

I don't have to make an opinion on this, because...it isn't being asked of my toons!!!

I thought this is an OOC discussion. No?

[Steve]

Sure, it is OOC. But I am not ever going to be leaving my weapons at the gates because I don't carry weapons on my person. Nor do I usually walk into a compound/Inn/Tavern like place, with a sword.

HOWEVER!! If you are saying this is an OOC discussion about IC "realities," then by you bringing up having to surrender weapons at the gates, yet, that is no where asked of your PCs—and especially not asked of you OOC—I really can't help but wonder why you are making stuff up, on the fly, to make a point about sense vs non-sense, when in actuality, your points are arguing OOC "possibilities" that are not even applicable to the IC "realities.

If you can't see it clearly, then I'm sorry for your continued confusion over the matter. Something I cannot do more to alleviate, mate!

[TheLier]

Sure, it is OOC. But I am not ever going to be leaving my weapons at the gates because I don't carry weapons on my person. Nor do I usually walk into a compound/Inn/Tavern like place, with a sword.

HOWEVER!! If you are saying this is an OOC discussion about IC "realities," then by you bringing up having to surrender weapons at the gates, yet, that is no where asked of your PCs—and especially not asked of you OOC—I really can't help but wonder why you are making stuff up, on the fly, to make a point about sense vs non-sense, when in actuality, your points are arguing OOC "possibilities" that are not even applicable to the IC "realities.

If you can't see it clearly, then I'm sorry for your continued confusion over the matter. Something I cannot do more to alleviate, mate!

I made a mistake, I apologise then. However, please don't call me an idiot, just point out the mistake in a civil manner? Yes? Thank you.

I'm getting more and more convinced that you wish to argue, not to debate. If so, please notify me, I don't want to partake it throwing dirt.

The argument is this, summing it up again :

It is absurd that such rule was made in the first place. In my opinion, the writers did not think it throught what would it mean in a day-to-day basis. I explained why already. So, for better imerssion I asked the staff to change it, also I asked for opinions, but not ad hominem attacks.

Thank you.

[Steve]

Didn't call you an idiot! You put those words on me.

It is not an argument when I give you an example of reasoning—my own backed up with Source—and you bring up alternative angles of reply that distract from the original point of discussion.

Debate, mate. When two or more points are contrasting each other. Calling something absurd is not an argument, or even a point of discussion. Calling something absurd is an opinion. I don't think debating opinions is worth anyone's time.

Debating the situation/problem/issue is worth the time, in order to try and bring about alternative points for debate.

Are you truly worried about immersion, in the sense that you cannot imagine how to role-play the GESTURE that your Character would be making by fastening their thumb to their belt, as they strolled around the Friendly Arm? Or to keep their sword firmly within a scabbard, possibly with a ceremonial lash tied around it? Or for the sake of a few moments, RPing that a toon has left their 2.5 meter long halberd at the gatepost, so that they can visit with Mudd?

You can claim ad hominem attacks all you want, but that doesn't make it the truth.

[TheLier]

Didn't call you an idiot! You put those words on me.

It is not an argument when I give you an example of reasoning—my own backed up with Source—and you bring up alternative angles of reply that distract from the original point of discussion.

Debate, mate. When two or more points are contrasting each other. Calling something absurd is not an argument, or even a point of discussion. Calling something absurd is an opinion. I don't think debating opinions is worth anyone's time.

Debating the situation/problem/issue is worth the time, in order to try and bring about alternative points for debate.

Are you truly worried about immersion, in the sense that you cannot imagine how to role-play the GESTURE that your Character would be making by fastening their thumb to their belt, as they strolled around the Friendly Arm? Or to keep their sword firmly within a scabbard, possibly with a ceremonial lash tied around it? Or for the sake of a few moments, RPing that a toon has left their 2.5 meter long halberd at the gatepost, so that they can visit with Mudd?

You can claim ad hominem attacks all you want, but that doesn't make it the truth.

It was never about my toon, it was about the a logical world, but you know what?

You win I'm tired of your agressive tone, and the staff already said they will not change it.

Call me whatever you wish. Last post in this thread from me.