Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

That is what I have been putting them down as Thorsson. Seeing as in canon lore "black orc" as a race does not exist, and the staff has never defined them as a homebrewed race, they are nothing more than mountain orcs, race wise.

They were to be defined as a homebrew race, when made into a Player Race.

There is/was a long history of development of the Black Orc since TheVoid started pushing them into greater "existence" on BGTSCC. That history and more related information was simply never shared with the Player Base, on a whole. Tidbits may have leaked out over the years, but since the whole "Black Orc as a Playable Race" issue appeared to have died a slow and painful death in 2014...then, somewhat found resurrection when Luna rediscovered the Orchome files tfunke made, and randomly—it seems—added them to the Server (with little fanfare, and a whole bunch of incomplete design aspects (which I should know, since I was probably the only one around involved/that could remember where the pieces did not fit).

Nonetheless, the Black Orc as a Player Race was irrelevant considering so few Players actually wanted to play any Orc-type monster race, in the last years. But, if that has changed, and further changes related to this issue probably will only come about if Players establish cause to make them happen.

As Maecius said, a Dev would have to put a lot of work into the Black Orcs to make them Player Races, as well, make sure the Northern "lawless lands" support that kind of Player Race, in balance, to what elves, halflings, dwarves, humans, etc. can experience and achieve. Tall order!!

*Waits till he sees black orcs chill with elfs and dwarfs at the arms inn*

Steve wrote:They were to be defined as a homebrew race, when made into a Player Race.

There is/was a long history of development of the Black Orc since TheVoid started pushing them into greater "existence" on BGTSCC. That history and more related information was simply never shared with the Player Base, on a whole. Tidbits may have leaked out over the years, but since the whole "Black Orc as a Playable Race" issue appeared to have died a slow and painful death in 2014...then, somewhat found resurrection when Luna rediscovered the Orchome files tfunke made, and randomly—it seems—added them to the Server (with little fanfare, and a whole bunch of incomplete design aspects (which I should know, since I was probably the only one around involved/that could remember where the pieces did not fit).

Nonetheless, the Black Orc as a Player Race was irrelevant considering so few Players actually wanted to play any Orc-type monster race, in the last years. But, if that has changed, and further changes related to this issue probably will only come about if Players establish cause to make them happen.

As Maecius said, a Dev would have to put a lot of work into the Black Orcs to make them Player Races, as well, make sure the Northern "lawless lands" support that kind of Player Race, in balance, to what elves, halflings, dwarves, humans, etc. can experience and achieve. Tall order!!

Well... that's sloppy to say the least. Significant changes to the setting we play in should be documented openly. I also do not like the fact that someone went about and created a race of supermuta... I mean superorcs just because they didn't like how orcs were portrayed in lore.

With only 3% (79/2592) of vault characters being Grey Orcs I can't see this being an urgent request at all, really.

I'll be the first one to admit that the attempt to bring a custom monster playable race to BGTSCC and succeed at removing/replacing the very out-of-context to the Sword Coast Gray Orc, was a failure.

I will say that since TheVoid dreamed it up, it was an ambitious and creative plan, with many putting effort behind it to see it to fruition...but alas, some bad passes and fumbles failed to take it to the finals. It was so close!!

On the issue of lack of open documentation/discussion...haha, that's not how it works, mate, no matter how appropriate and fair it may be.

Thids wrote: Well... that's sloppy to say the least. Significant changes to the setting we play in should be documented openly. I also do not like the fact that someone went about and created a race of supermuta... I mean superorcs just because they didn't like how orcs were portrayed in lore.

I could not agree more, man. It does not fit the FR lore at all. An average Orc of any subrace, should not be something that strong.

And, if those become a player race....that would be unwise. Either they will be super OP (to match their NPC counterparts, like, those can't be all level 30 lore wise, level 10 at max. Now imagine a level 30 verison), or for some reason they will be much more weaker, breaking server lore of "super stonk orcs".

And, I really don't want to see a black orc, "revoke his/her evil ways". This is a monster race, and people won't respond as such, so it will most likely lead to more immersion breaking.

Oh, and IMO they should not get common by default, only orc.

Well considering people already get to play that of a powerful race lore wise and mechianics wise "Drow" then i hardly see how the argument of player power would be denied in the case of Black Orcs. Drow is CRAZY powerful down in the underdark lore wise and even with mechanics yet players can choose them all they want?

PS: Wanna know why 3% of the player base are orcs? *Points to the title of the conversation*

As you've all clearly stated Grey orcs hold no presence here and are FAR FAR less esteemed of the Black orc race "at the presence moment" because of just how much more lore and presence the Black Orcs have at least in terms of BGTSCC.

If the there were more ensentive to playing Grey Orcs or orcs in general im sure more people would but there was not in past due to. . . Well. . . There was no place for them. Grey Orcs were KOS and yet where would their "Safe Haven" be? They did not have one! And they still don't Uruk Lurra is a Black Orc dominated region at the very least if a PC Black Orc where to roam around he would have a place of shelter.

kkrazlite wrote:Well considering people already get to play that of a powerful race lore wise and mechianics wise "Drow" then i hardly see how the argument of player power would be denied in the case of Black Orcs. Drow is CRAZY powerful down in the underdark lore wise and even with mechanics yet players can choose them all they want?

PS: Wanna know why 3% of the player base are orcs? *Points to the title of the conversation*

That is quite different. Take your Black orc Berseker. Let's say that is level 15. At level 30 what the hell would be that?
Drow is not -that- strong

I very much doubt the DM's would allow the PC creation of Black Orcs too be overly dramatic maybe the NPC's sure. But not the PC's i still think the PC Black Orcs should at the very least be powerful though.

TheLier wrote:That is quite different. Take your Black orc Berseker. Let's say that is level 15. At level 30 what the hell would be that?
Drow is not -that- strong

Black Orc Berserkers are max level and rated above max level.. Yes, they are quite strong though..

Edit: Also, without going into too much detail.. It is possible that DMs have tried scaling down such creatures for lower level events but you have to keep in mind, scaling creatures up and down is a very difficult balance (at least for me). It is quite easy for creatures being scaled up to still be too weak and for creature being scaled down to still be too powerful. It takes a lot of practice.. time.. and fine balancing.

In all fairness to making Black Orcs a separate subrace.. This could be considered similar to how wood elves came about, a new race born from the mixed breeding of wild elves, moon elves and sun elves over centuries.. This could have been a process that was done mostly underground and only recently arrived on the surface.. So.. Just saying lore wise it can easily be added.. Power wise, they are quite powerful.. Not quite as powerful as I think they are being made out to be.. but they are powerful and I don't know how exactly to reign that in without breaking the continuity of the race.

DM Echo wrote:

TheLier wrote:That is quite different. Take your Black orc Berseker. Let's say that is level 15. At level 30 what the hell would be that?
Drow is not -that- strong

Black Orc Berserkers are max level and rated above max level.. Yes, they are quite strong though..

Edit: Also, without going into too much detail.. It is possible that DMs have tried scaling down such creatures for lower level events but you have to keep in mind, scaling creatures up and down is a very difficult balance (at least for me). It is quite easy for creatures being scaled up to still be too weak and for creature being scaled down to still be too powerful. It takes a lot of practice.. time.. and fine balancing.

In all fairness to making Black Orcs a separate subrace.. This could be considered similar to how wood elves came about, a new race born from the mixed breeding of wild elves, moon elves and sun elves over centuries.. This could have been a process that was done mostly underground and only recently arrived on the surface.. So.. Just saying lore wise it can easily be added.. Power wise, they are quite powerful.. Not quite as powerful as I think they are being made out to be.. but they are powerful and I don't know how exactly to reign that in without breaking the continuity of the race.

I don't want to sound agressive, becuse I get why BOs are so strong in DM events, but think about it. They can't be all "best of the best", I assumed those are their simple warriors. Now I highly doubt not at least 60-70% of their combat strength is becuse of their inherent abilites. Think about how long it takes lorewise to get to even "level 15" (as per the level/2 rule here).

It is much more plausible if they are just about "level 3-5", and they are that good fighters naturally (I hope they do not have immunites to death magic and such though). That kinda makes sense, for an -NPC-.

I don't see a soultion which does not break the "hombrew lore" even. Becuse the NPC stats do matter and the if it ever makes it to the "PC race" phase, they should always reflect that.

And that is my problem. This is a monster race at best. They tend to have NPC classes for a good reason.

I support adding maybe M.orcs. Altough, it does not change the fact that "orc haters" will be called racist again, becuse some LG mountain orc shows up and gets accepted by the campfire mob, but I really should not get to that.

The way I see it with many DM spawns is they must be stronger then normal to give PCs a fight in cases. They are powerful as well because It's like the NPC guard rule, that 1 = a number of guard at the same time and is why they are stronger. Same with the Black Orc NPCs. Any PC version I would expect have the exact same stats as a Grey Orc, and would not be as strong as they = 1 monster.

PS: I'd personally like to see 0% Orc on the surface. It's an RP nightmare trying to find reasons my Dwarf does not kill them on sight. But that ship has sailed, so if they must be added let them be added with proper level of hate a Black Orc would logically receive

Not that it fits the lore of the server but....

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Thayan_orc

Stonebar wrote:The way I see it with many DM spawns is they must be stronger then normal to give PCs a fight in cases. They are powerful as well because It's like the NPC guard rule, that 1 = a number of guard at the same time and is why they are stronger. Same with the Black Orc NPCs. Any PC version I would expect have the exact same stats as a Grey Orc, and would not be as strong as they = 1 monster.

PS: I'd personally like to see 0% Orc on the surface. It's an RP nightmare trying to find reasons my Dwarf does not kill them on sight. But that ship has sailed, so if they must be added let them be added with proper level of hate a Black Orc would logically receive

It still makes very little sense. Like, that would mean that the PC versions are inherently weaker, and that could result in the weird scenarion, when the "champion of the tribe" is not really stronger then the "average Joe".

And yeah...monster races are monster races. I don't think they should be played.