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Re: Blood Magus + Warlock

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:21 pm
by Rhifox
Just for reference, since the sourcebook where warlocks are introduced addressed warlocks and arcane prcs.
Complete Arcane wrote:WARLOCKS AND PRESTIGE CLASSES

Warlocks benefit in a specific way from prestige classes that have “+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class” or “+1 level of existing spellcasting class” as a level advancement benefit. A warlock taking levels in such a prestige class does not gain any of his class abilities, but he does gain an increased caster level when using his invocations and increased damage with his eldritch blast. Levels of prestige classes that provide +1 level of spellcasting effectively stack with the warlock’s level to determine his eldritch blast damage (treat his combined caster level as his warlock class level when looking at Table 1–1: The Warlock to determine eldritch blast damage) and his eldritch blast caster level (half his total caster level from his warlock levels and his levels in the prestige class that grant him an increased spellcasting level). A warlock also gains new invocations known at these prestige class levels as though he had gained a level in the warlock class.

A warlock cannot qualify for prestige classes with spellcasting level requirements, as he never actually learns to cast spells. However, prestige classes with caster level requirements, such as the acolyte of the skin, are well suited to the warlock. A warlock’s caster level for his invocations fulfills this requirement. See page 71 in Chapter 3 for more details on caster level requirements, spellcasting level requirements, and specific spell requirements for feats and prestige classes.

Re: Blood Magus + Warlock

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:38 pm
by metaquad4
Indeed! But, as we have only two of those PRCs, this is a pretty good fix. Noone gives you a prize for sticking to PnP even when it doesn't help at all.

I'd say for what we have on the server its a good choice for adding flavor for warlocks. It doesn't hurt anyone, and it benefits someone. If we had every PnP class, on the other hand...it might be another story.

Re: Blood Magus + Warlock

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:13 pm
by mrm3ntalist
metaquad4 wrote:- High Fort Saves. No save progression for reflex or will (last I played it).
- 1d4 to 1d6 isn't too important for most wizards in a practical sense (IE when not being a paper warrior). Your health is so low anyway that it isn't your main defense. Mirror Image+30 DR+Displacment with either high AC or HiPs forms the brunt of it.
- +2 Permanent CON is alright. Not really the greatest but it doesn't hurt.
- +2 CL above HD (aka 32 CL aka +1 DCs for most casters) is handy.
- Awaken Blood, in its current state, is one of the best things about the class. With a save, I suppose it'll be negligible. If its a save but you still get full damage it'll remain good I think. Or at least alright..
- Bloodwalk WAS good. Now that people can metagame it freely (and they will) due to the consent system (rather than say, a save system!) its meh.
- Scars are good if you have money. Not everyone has unlimited riches, however and those prices can sure rack up. If you can farm, then its fantastic.
- KoS. Can't forget that one. Given that this server is very good-dominated this is a HUGE downside, as it limits your public mechanical potential and RP usage of your abilities (without denying yourself from a big part of the server, generally speaking. Unless you are a mysterious snowflake who can blood magic and get along with goodies.).

Now don't get me wrong. I wouldn't say blood mage is a bad class. Its just not the best. Its solid, I'd say.
The problems most casters have is that they are squishy. If someone told me that he would make an arcane PRC with 50% more hit dice, +2CON that stacks with bears, +1DC, a couple of nice abilities and extra spells (scars), I wouldnt have believed him. Really, what is more to ask from a single PRC?

And you compare BM to ASoC? That will give you improved metamagic to cast more fireballs/orbs polar rays etc? Its clear that we think differently so there is no need to argue. ASoC is great for blasters, even better if that blaster is a sorcerer. However. the way BG is set up with many mobs with high HP you will run out of spells all the time, since you need 3 spells to kill a single lets say frost giant. Its more practical to use summons, domination, controlling and DC spells instead. For that reason blasting is impractical ( which in turn makes ASoC impractical ) unless you play a warlock.

Since we mentioned warlocks, its one thing to ask for the arcane PRCs to be opened for warlocks and another to ask to give blast dice progression. Its like asking Palemaster to increase the number of songs for Bards or Death Attack for assassins.

Re: Blood Magus + Warlock

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:57 am
by NegInfinity
1. Most of the blood magus abilities are useless to a warlock. (scars/starches)

2. Warlock does not use arcane spells, it only has a caster level. Therefore it doesn't qualify for a blood mage which requires arcane spell level.

3. It is possible that there's some way to create genasi or dwarf based hellfire warlock bloodmage monstrocity. Bloodmage increases con, and Hellfire warlock depends on it. It might be possible to abuse that or create regenerating or permanent DR 10/- warlock.
metaquad4 wrote:Imo, warlocks who qualify (3rd level invocations for 3rd level spells) should get access to arcane PRCs (with the exception of ASoC, as warlocks can't use metamagic). Palemaster, Frost Mage, Blood Mage, Harper Agent(?), and any others I missed. Archmage, they wouldn't qualify for, since that requires level 7 spells and they only get up to level 4. It'd add a bit of flavor too, and allow for representation of different pacts in a rather simple manner.
This is wrong, because Warlock invocation level does not correspond to arcane spell level. Instead every invocation elvel has equivalent spell level, so if you're going to check invocations to qualify for arcane caster level, you should be using invocations ESL instead.
http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Invocation
A warlock can get first ESL 3 invocation at level 6.

Either way, opening every prestige class to everybody is a bad idea, because base classes will lose their unique feel and every caster will be the same.