Guttural Invocations

[Akroma666]

As always, curious why people are voting no and not giving reasons. Please share

[Karond]

Hit a "No" vote, but I'm not really cemented in the opinion.

I based it on my initial thoughts. Them being, why would warlocks play anything else with this? It's not even levelled progress, it's the same stats everytime, and they're really good. It's almost no drawback to it. It's like how druids thought before hierophant, why wouldn't I go for dragon form? There was hardly any reason, and almost noone did it except rare individuals like breteas.

Another thing. Maybe warlocks can show some restraint and not be in devil form in cities, after all druids are decent at holding back on this. But elsewhere? Elementals are a bit alien, yes. Even baby dragons being seen among adventurers. But regularly seeing a "kill on sight" pit fiend whenever there is a warlock grinding, doing an event or just hanging out? That might, possibly but not necessarily, spark drama.

[Young Werther]

Shifted stat change and wisdom stacking. Hello warlock monks from hell.

[Akroma666]

Warlock monks.. I have one.. Hence the reason for the asking. But who really cares?! Wisdom doesn't help blast dice, just AC and flurry helps.. But beyond that big whoop. You can't use items, abilities, and as kaarond pointed out, are kos.

The reason druid can't multi class monk is the wisdom stat carryover.. Which you can still accomplish with spirit shaman, just without the casting when transformed. Still get great ac and a full set of spells on a single stat.

I think leaving them as kos as shifted should be a huge drawback. It won't change anything other than making the warlock itself a bit more durable. The shape change is still a kos ability.

The ability to cast spells will only allow one major change, the ability to Dark Premonition and invis without having to shift back, and blast while changed. Why shouldn't they? Role play wise it makes sense.. Demons/devils can't use the very magic they imbue you with? How does that make any sense?..

A warlock/monk will still not compare to a pure druid, other than maybe dish out a little more damage while not being as durable.

[Young Werther]

If you can already blast while demon shape changed then I don't see any reason not to allow gutteral for those other spells. I thought you'd be barred from blasting in that form atm and that was the balance reason.

[Akroma666]

If you can already blast while demon shape changed then I don't see any reason not to allow gutteral for those other spells. I thought you'd be barred from blasting in that form atm and that was the balance reason.

You can't blast from demon I don't think.. But you can just hideous blow.

[Young Werther]

The ability to cast spells will only allow one major change, the ability to Dark Premonition and invis without having to shift back, and blast while changed. Why shouldn't they? Role play wise it makes sense.. Demons/devils can't use the very magic they imbue you with? How does that make any sense?..

I was reading that. Is it devil form you can blast in? I don't know the difference. But hideous blow reapplies and is basically the same thing from that perspective, yes? Maybe I shouldn't vote seeing how I don't know the spell very well.

[Akroma666]

The ability to cast spells will only allow one major change, the ability to Dark Premonition and invis without having to shift back, and blast while changed. Why shouldn't they? Role play wise it makes sense.. Demons/devils can't use the very magic they imbue you with? How does that make any sense?..

I was reading that. Is it devil form you can blast in? I don't know the difference. But hideous blow reapplies and is basically the same thing from that perspective, yes? Maybe I shouldn't vote seeing how I don't know the spell very well.

Yes^
You automatically re-apply hideous blow.. so why not just give the ability to blast long range too?
Makes no sense..

[Eclypticon]

I'd be for adding a PnP shape with this or customizing something that emulates PnP but can survive the server.

As far as devil shape, we ought to have something else too. Some warlocks would never take that form. Another issue as mentioned above, is that, this is not PnP. In my opinion, this would need a DM ruling regarding removing devil shape.

I have played druid and power build monk locks, and I think druid is much better even with GI. There are some instances this would not be true, but generally druids are more powerful in their upper forms.

I voted yes as a consideration. I really am in between on the issue depending on how a discussion may or may not go.

[Akroma666]

I'd be for adding a PnP shape with this or customizing something that emulates PnP but can survive the server.

As far as devil shape, we ought to have something else too. Some warlocks would never take that form. Another issue as mentioned above, is that, this is not PnP. In my opinion, this would need a DM ruling regarding removing devil shape.

I have played druid and power build monk locks, and I think druid is much better even with GI. There are some instances this would not be true, but generally druids are more powerful in their upper forms.

I voted yes as a consideration. I really am in between on the issue depending on how a discussion may or may not go.

Agree with all of this.. including more forms.. be cool to get a fae form too.

[Akroma666]

Kaarond is the only one with a compelling argument for a no.. Would love to hear from any of the swinging majority no's out there..

[Eclypticon]

If you are playing a HiPs Lock, you will want to stay in humanoid form for the skill bonuses. I'm sure some players would still occasionally use the devil form with GI to have a backup edge though. Then there are dagger spell locks, I'd prefer humanoid form with this myself.

Warlocks really need there own PrC that isn't hellfire warlock probably more that GI or maybe with GI included only for the PrC.

[AlwaysSummer Day]

Warlock are already pretty powerful. Do they need Fast Healing too?

[Tsidkenu]

Kaarond is the only one with a compelling argument for a no.. Would love to hear from any of the swinging majority no's out there..

Do you really want the reason I voted no? Really?

[Akroma666]

Kaarond is the only one with a compelling argument for a no.. Would love to hear from any of the swinging majority no's out there..

Do you really want the reason I voted no? Really?

Actually yeah, I'm curious.
Specially if I put work into making a kit or PRC for this class.

Warlock are already pretty powerful. Do they need Fast Healing too?

So is that the major concern, fast healing 5? Druid can do that with better stats in their form with regenerate and rejuvenation cocoon. If that's a concern to just get healing and better base stats I just can't see the argument because a druid does it better. Beyond the fiendish heal feat, this would be the only means of healing.