Barbarian has evasion, though, and can qualify for permanent damage reduction, up to 15..16/- via epic damage reduction. That's without proposed resiliency fix.
Actually with the current way of things a Barbarian can reach 20/- DR. I do not think another class can reach that. Since the requirement for EPic and Thundering rage was put at 21 you can now make a more balanced Barb. So getting feats like EPIC DR to stack with the other DRs and then using the extra 3 feats granted at 10,20 & 30 you can do some neat things. I was playing around a bit last night.
I think the biggest fix you could make would be to allow Barb Rage and Frenzy Rage to stack. That is a whopping +20 to STR and would make one hell of a Barbarian pure melee if it can be done. Basically a 20 B/ 10 FB could wind up with 20/- DR and get up to 41 Str when raging. If we can allow tireless rage to affect frenzy rage as well a Barb could be a viable build for the entire server.
I know I have one fighter/fb build that did quite well in testing in JEGS and was able to whomp just about every mob in the builder except the bunny and drow party. These new changes almost make that type of DR + Regen build possible with a pure Barbarian. The only thing I wish would happen is that rage stacks with other forms of rage.
Kory Sentinel
"We should take the army head on!"
"... it sounds like a terrible idea, but look at that smile."
"And he just sounds so confident ... he is a favored soul."
"Even if we don't survive, he will, and isn't that what matters?" -Red Lancer
Epic Rage - Lower STR requirement from 27 to 21 This only effects pure barbarians, great at least they cna get their key ability, but still doesnt help anyone else.
Thundering Rage - Lower STR requirement from 25 to 21 This again, is only going to effect pure barbarians because you will need 5 rage/day. Also, requires another feat slot.. so there foes 2 of the 3 bonus feats we got.
Greater Resiliency - Increase DR from 1/- to 3/- an extra 2 DR? that will do absolutely nothing. We push this up to 5-9 and it might be worth taking.. guess what!? there's our 3rd feat gone.
At level 20, barbarians get +2 AC. At this point, unless were going pure barbarian, this is a wasted bonus.. and we might as well since the top 3 are geared towards purists anyways.
Bonus feat at levels 10/20/30 As stated, this is the only benefit.. and the only one any multi-classer would actually attempt to get would be the free at 10 feat. I think these should be lowered to 8, 16, 24, 30. At least you will get 1 extra feat to tinker with.
Rage increase by 5rounds The only real winner here is this. But still, it just makes extend rage all the more lackluster with the bonus 5 base added to them. You basically gave everyone extended rage I. Why not make the extended rages actually worth getting. Add an extra duration to extend rage by 1-3 rounds a piece.
These "additions" are geared toward pure 30 barbarians.. and who honestly is going to want to play pure 30 barbarian without ANY other flavor. We have a bear warrior specialty PRC that is just completely overlooked and only 2 of these actually benefit it. Were you thinking about taking those fighter levels with your barbarian? Better rethink going outside the box now..
Sorry.. I think im tired and cranky.. but these were a huge letdown.
That was the point. To make barbarians great after an investment of levels in them. 20 barbarians levels is not too much and leaves for many multiclass possibilities. AK, Bear Warrior etc fit nicely
If you expected bonuses on barbarians at levels 4 or 5, that would not happen.
I am certain when those changes are implemented and see what barbarians can do, your mind will change quickly.
Calodan wrote:Actually with the current way of things a Barbarian can reach 20/- DR. I do not think another class can reach that. Since the requirement for EPic and Thundering rage was put at 21 you can now make a more balanced Barb. So getting feats like EPIC DR to stack with the other DRs and then using the extra 3 feats granted at 10,20 & 30 you can do some neat things. I was playing around a bit last night.
They do stack but most likely they hit the bonus ability cap. Not much we can do ( or should do ) about it since it is engine related.
As I said previously you can still go up to 10 levels in another class. I don't think we really changed anything in relation to those that dip barbarian as that wasn't the point. The point was to bring barbarian closer to ranger our paladin or monk in that if you want to go mostly barbarian it is completely viable. I believe we will see this as a success when it gets in.
They do stack but most likely they hit the bonus ability cap. Not much we can do ( or should do ) about it since it is engine related.
You sure? I mean may take a lot of work I know that but I think Trinity was able to bypass ability bonus caps. Since they have 40 levels they had to find a way past that in order for the levels to work. Maybe I am wrong. Not a builder or even savvy enough to do it myself but I can brainstorm!!
For the record I do not want this place to be Trinity I am just using them as an example. We tell wonderful stories here and RP. Trinity is geared towards the Diablo and Warcraft type gamer with raids and high magic gear and such. I like both play styles actually. Here and there. Now on to Barbs!
HOnestly I think crafting will get more done for the server than any boost to PRCs and Base classes. What we really need is full customization of our PCs. That would go a long way to aiding the gap of melee and magic on the server I think.
I do like the change on Epic and Thundering rage for sure though! I do not know how many times I went to do a barb build and the requirement for those completely fubared the build from being anything but a complete min-max wreck.
Kory Sentinel
"We should take the army head on!"
"... it sounds like a terrible idea, but look at that smile."
"And he just sounds so confident ... he is a favored soul."
"Even if we don't survive, he will, and isn't that what matters?" -Red Lancer
chad878262 wrote:As I said previously you can still go up to 10 levels in another class. I don't think we really changed anything in relation to those that dip barbarian as that wasn't the point. The point was to bring barbarian closer to ranger our paladin or monk in that if you want to go mostly barbarian it is completely viable. I believe we will see this as a success when it gets in.
(>_<)
Almost anything is viable if people are playing it smart.
Overall it sounds like a completely unnecessary powerup for a class that was decent to begin with. That's an opinion, of course.
Ouch, insults me then uses multiclass and all the feats to "prove" me wrong.
Any buff is a step in the right direction at this point though. I accept it will never be on par with casters or hipsters.
Roland; svirfneblin fist of the forest and eco terrorist.
Heinrich Von Rittermark; Everwatch Knights of Helm
Frederick Von Rittermark; Paladin of Azuth/Mystra
Erik Von Rittermark; Unknown
mrm3ntalist wrote:So we have two that think that the changes are not good enough adn another two who think that the changes were not needed. Got to love public forums
Lol, this xD
I welcome any changes to the barbarian class, I've been building barbarians for a while, and what I can conclude is that it's a feat nightmare, there's so many things you want, but you can't have them. So you usually end up with a character that does everything poorly. :p
Would it be worth to consider making barbarian damage reduction progress with Frenzied Berserker?
Gunnar Vintarskjold, Champion of Tempus
Theadric Trickshot - Hiatus - Hunting Yuan-Ti in Chult. Zeke Slywit, Ebon Blade - Enjoying retirement in Luiren. Drogo, Trustworthy thief
mrm3ntalist wrote:So we have two that think that the changes are not good enough adn another two who think that the changes were not needed. Got to love public forums
Guess this means is balanced!
Seriously though, as with anything, can't please everyone... It's important to note that we've said as a team in the past there are several melee classes we wanted to buff up a bit without making them OP. This is the goat class we looked at, perhaps due to alphabetical order, maybe because it needed it the most in our eyes. Someone will probably come along and say everyone in QC plays barbarians! End of the day we feel some melee classes need a bit of love so we hope to provide some improvements.
AlwaysSummer Day wrote:Ouch, insults me then uses multiclass and all the feats to "prove" me wrong.
Insult? Where? The numbers i gave were with no multiclass. I added what the numbers can be with multiclass. These changes target for Barb20. Even casters take a 4lvl dip multiclass
Any buff is a step in the right direction at this point though.
Great!
I accept it will never be on par with casters or hipsters.
It would be terrible if everyone agreed on the same things anyway
I'm a bit afraid it will funnel the barbarians into the epic rage & epic dr builds, this doesn't seem to promote diversity because the epic rage & dr path will be superior to only epic rage or only epic dr. How did you come up with 21 STR requirement ?
Valefort wrote:I'm a bit afraid it will funnel the barbarians into the epic rage & epic dr builds, this doesn't seem to promote diversity because the epic rage & dr path will be superior to only epic rage or only epic dr. How did you come up with 21 STR requirement ?
Any more STR would allow only for Earth Genasi and or Dwarves to get both. I think for any change, the target should be Humans unless for when the races with ability bonuses break it.
I dont consider going for both DR and Epic rage is a bad thing. Epic rage should be a given. Personally i would haveEpic Rage just as an epic feat with no prereqs, as is Bane of enemies. Epic Rage is what makes the barbarians Epic.
Last edited by mrm3ntalist on Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:28 am, edited 3 times in total.
mrm3ntalist wrote:
So we have two that think that the changes are not good enough adn another two who think that the changes were not needed. Got to love public forums
I think the changes are great! I as usual am the person who wants all the power though!
Hey guys don't public opinion sway what you think you accomplished. I worked as the programs coordinator for Elizabeth Parks and Recreation for a bit this Summer and no matter what I did the public was pissed off. That is the life of public service.
You ALL are doing a bang up job right now. The server is alive with changes and balances and movement again. The weekend full server can attest to this! Just keep your focus on the real task and that is to fix the bugs that are out there first and foremost then get that crafting system in! Once that is done let us worry about the other stuff then!
Kory Sentinel
"We should take the army head on!"
"... it sounds like a terrible idea, but look at that smile."
"And he just sounds so confident ... he is a favored soul."
"Even if we don't survive, he will, and isn't that what matters?" -Red Lancer
One could also say that mighty rage is what makes barbarian epic, it's not very different from epic rage after all, from +8 to +10 and it's given at level 20 barb.
Epic rage was what made STR barb epic and epic dr what made CON barbarians epic in my eyes, let's remember epic rage had a 30 STR requirement in the vanilla game ! It was the path of STR only, which was accessible to human race too, with 2 great STR feats investment; now the lines are blurred. However if that makes more people play barbarians that's a good thing so I guess we'll see.
Valefort wrote:Epic rage was what made STR barb epic and epic dr what made CON barbarians epic in my eyes, let's remember epic rage had a 30 STR requirement in the vanilla game ! It was the path of STR only, which was accessible to human race too, with 2 great STR feats investment; now the lines are blurred. However if that makes more people play barbarians that's a good thing so I guess we'll see.
The difference between the vanilla game and BG is HP. Mobs have a lot of HP that cuts down on the duration of rages and makes the low AC barbarians be hit more.
Thats why barbarians did not work (at all?) on bg. These changes not only increase the duration of the limited number of rages ( both through the +5rounds and the High CON ) but also make tehm more durable since they can now shrug off enough damage.
Stil lthere are other options. Very High STR with Shield slam, Very High CON/Fist of the forest with Fighter for unarmed mambo jumbo etc...
