Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Aelcar wrote:I played a pure Paladin with CHA 36 (buffed long term) .

36!? How did you get 36 if you I may ask?

Aelcar wrote:

Randomgamer wrote: I didn't see any Paladin specific content while leveling up, I could be mistaken in that regard.

Yes, you are mistaken.

Great Smiting can be a game changer for sure, but it comes at a cost of expending resources at the expense of other ability scores and feats a character might normally take.

Well, thank god. Getting stuff like Great Smite V+ for free wouldn't exactly be a joke, balance-wise.

I'm only saying that most other builds are better

You're mistaken. Again.

and as far as I am aware there is a lack of custom content.

But you are, in fact, unaware.

This servers PRCs and content are evil and non-lawful focused. I'm not sure that was intended, but that's the way it is looking at all the custom PRC's and other custom content.

I think it's still your lack of awareness speaking.

To be perfectly clear, paladin is a good class. More or less as good as ranger, which is another good class. It has great class mechanics (Turn Undead, CHA to saves, Lay on Hands which is the best healing skill in game, Smite/Great Smite, easy access to Divine Might and Shield, a fantastic spellbook full of excellent custom spells), and it's balanced by the fact it's a multi-attribute dependant class, and that it requires heavy level investment to become really good, much like Monk, Bard, Druid, Warlock and the aforementioned Ranger, to quote a few instances.

To build a really good paladin, you need decent Wisdom and high Charisma. In particular, Charisma has huge synergy with everything I mentioned above.

Classes with CHA penalties, characters with full STR and CHA as dump stat or heavy multiclassing with subsequent loss of CL weaken a paladin character. Taking feats like Shield Slam isn't exactly synergetic with Paladin, although it can be done.

I played a pure Paladin with CHA 36 (buffed long term) in DM Bloodlust's events, and I had zero issues. You might actually say he shone quite brightly...

Before making a post like this, you really should gather some proper, accurate intel.

Most people who play paladin will not build a 36 charisma epic smiter. I Imagine it was a powerbuilt Aasimar for the stat bonuses as well instead of an RP race like halfling for example. I also do not appreciate your condescending tone and disrespectful nature of your post. If you can't be civil and respectful, then I'd ask you not to respond at all.

*Puts on moderator hat..*
Play nice now.. Or this post will get 12 years dungeon.
https://youtu.be/lvOTaXIog6k

If you take a look at the paladin spells you will see that they got some nice things compared to vanilla randomgamer. Mainly +8 STR and +8 CHA spells, +5 shield spell, +5 and keen weapon spell. There are ways to build a 30 paladin in a powerful fashion, like the 36 CHA smiter .. or EDM ...maybe not what you had in mind though. How do you envision paladins ?

Would love some advice personally on how to play these chars as I love the idea of them, my one would of course be a complete rule follower paladin with no qualms of smiting the ones who need smiting!

But they are kind of crap till epic levels no?

Akroma666 wrote:I started a rather lengthy thread about this months back. The end result was "kits are coming and they will fix the class."
http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=4 ... ellcasting
I agree, class is garbage, exactly why you don't see any of them. Sorry your experience was sour, RCR now while you can.

Garbage? Why is that? What is it they are lacking?

The kits wont fix the class. There is nothing wrong with the class. The kits will allow for more "paths".

mrm3ntalist wrote:

Akroma666 wrote:I started a rather lengthy thread about this months back. The end result was "kits are coming and they will fix the class."
http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=4 ... ellcasting
I agree, class is garbage, exactly why you don't see any of them. Sorry your experience was sour, RCR now while you can.

Garbage? Why is that? What is it they are lacking?

The kits wont fix the class. There is nothing wrong with the class. The kits will allow for more "paths".

Fully buffed and even if i had EDM my character can't hold a candle to a warded up Frenzied berserker weaponmaster nor a Favored soul I've been farming with, nor a bard, nor the archers for that matter. I think you guys are thinking in terms of trash mobs on the server and not bosses nor party play. Paladins are weak compared to any other DPS class or Tank class, they have nothing going for them at all besides a save boost which of course takes away from their AB and their DPS. Paladins are below par at DPS, tanking, and support. They are a very bad feat starved class with some advantages against undead though bless weapon can be used on a wand or cast upon anyone for that matter. I've played a lot of games, they are trash outside of some situational Epic Smite build and the vast majority of the people i talk to agree. The server is very clearly anti lawful good in regards to additional content so I don't know why anyone is surprised, however, I am surprised that the the evil crowd is mostly about supporting and buffing paladins in general.

Randomgamer wrote:Fully buffed and even if i had EDM my character can't hold a candle to a warded up Frenzied berserker paladin nor a Favored soul I've been farming with, nor a bard, nor archers for that matter. I think you guys are thinking in terms of trash mobs on the server and not bosses nor party play. Paladins are weak compared to any other DPS class or Tank class, they have nothing going for them at all besides a save boost which of course takes away from their AB and their DPS.

You spoke generic about the paladin being trash and not being good against some bosses ( generic ). Dont complain when someone tell you you are unaware. What if i tell you that i use my paladin to farm the two most difficult areas ( other than the white dragon ) faster than an FS does?

What is it you cant do? Are there any AB, ac damage issues? What is the problem exactly?

Saying that a class is trash and leave it at that, the reply i can give you is that it is not trash.

I realize this is a mechanical discussion, and in some parts, I do agree that Paladin can be a bit lackluster, but I would feel remiss if I didn't say something.

Paladin, as a class, has always been something I've strived to RP on BGTSCC. I may not be the best at it, but I've always enjoyed the unique brand of roleplaying only a paladin can bring to the table. To me, paladins aren't always about being the strongest, most noble bada** on the field. They're about the pursuit of an ideal. A personal representation of the road less taken. Was my paladin the strongest man on the battlefield? No, not ever. Did I find myself dying more than once from errant pvp? Yes sir, I did.

But the real idea here isn't that paladins should be stronger, or other builds should be nerfed, or weaker. It's about the roleplay. Paladins could be stronger, but are, as they currently sit, a viable option for the roleplay of the class. They aren't so weak that they cannot be roleplayed as they should be. They aren't hobbled, or useless. They are -difficult-, and their roleplay is difficult, and to be honest, I think that's the way it should be.

Paladins are the pursuit of an ideal. You make a commitment to that ideal as a player when you choose to role a paladin. The class is worth the difficulty, for the roleplay that it brings, and if that roleplay isn't worth playing the difficult class, then perhaps Paladin isn't for you.

No disrespect intended, just my two-cents.

mrm3ntalist wrote:

Randomgamer wrote:Fully buffed and even if i had EDM my character can't hold a candle to a warded up Frenzied berserker paladin nor a Favored soul I've been farming with, nor a bard, nor archers for that matter. I think you guys are thinking in terms of trash mobs on the server and not bosses nor party play. Paladins are weak compared to any other DPS class or Tank class, they have nothing going for them at all besides a save boost which of course takes away from their AB and their DPS.

You spoke generic about the paladin being trash and not being good against some bosses ( generic ). Dont complain when someone tell you you are unaware. What if i tell you that i use my paladin to farm the two most difficult areas ( other than the white dragon ) faster than an FS does?

What is it you cant do? Are there any AB, ac damage issues? What is the problem exactly?

Saying that a class is trash and leave it at that, the reply i can give you is that it is not trash.

Trash mobs? Any decent build can deal with them. Against Epic bosses , mini-bosses, and 'elite' trash mobs paladins are at a huge disadvantage to every class except perhaps barbarian. There is no way a paladin can compete +AB wise with a DPS build, nor is there anyway they can compete with a tank damage mitigation build. Some of you are not thinking upon this group synergy wise. A paladin sucks at DPS and mitigation as a tank here. They have no role in a proper raiding party at all. If this was WoW , no one would allow them in a raid. You guys are not thinking big picture in a party dynamics and on top of that they have strict codes for RP. Insult to injury.

Randomgamer wrote:Trash mobs? Any decent build can deal with them. Against Epic bosses , mini-bosses, and 'elite' trash mobs paladins are at a huge disadvantage to every class except perhaps barbarian. There is no way a paladin can compete +AB wise with a DPS build, nor is there anyway they can compete with a tank damage mitigation build. Some of you are not thinking upon this group synergy wise. A paladin sucks at DPS and mitigation as a tank here. They have no role in a proper raiding party at all.

The paladin is the best DPS against undead in the long run. No many builds ( if any ) can do as much damage as a paladin can.

The same against bosses such as the balor.

The paladin is my class of choice to solo those bosses.

Now, it might not be the best there is, i can give you that? But trash? Thats has nothing to do with the reality.

mrm3ntalist wrote:

Randomgamer wrote:Trash mobs? Any decent build can deal with them. Against Epic bosses , mini-bosses, and 'elite' trash mobs paladins are at a huge disadvantage to every class except perhaps barbarian. There is no way a paladin can compete +AB wise with a DPS build, nor is there anyway they can compete with a tank damage mitigation build. Some of you are not thinking upon this group synergy wise. A paladin sucks at DPS and mitigation as a tank here. They have no role in a proper raiding party at all.

The paladin is the best DPS against undead in the long run. No many builds ( if any ) can do as much damage as a paladin can.

The same against bosses such as the balor.

The paladin is my class of choice to solo those bosses.

Nah. Cleric, favored soul are going to make me look like a NAB all day. I've been grouping with them. They out DPS my paladin and are for the most part better tanks. No way in hell a paladin can tank any non trash mob solo without a lot of heal pots.

Randomgamer wrote:Nah. Cleric, favored soul are going to make me look like a NAB all day. I've been grouping with them. They out DPS my paladin and are for the most part better tanks.

Ok! Paladins are trash...

Randomgamer wrote:They have no role in a proper raiding party at all. If this was WoW , no one would allow them in a raid. You guys are not thinking big picture in a party dynamics and on top of that they have strict codes for RP. Insult to injury.

Even mentioning WoW and raiding parties probably just lost you about 90% of any support you may have had. This isn't WoW, no one wants it to be WoW.

I am going to reiterate that you might have better luck, as was mentioned before, asking for build help in the appropriate sub-forum.

i believe he's just referring to party play in general. and mmos are a good reference for that

he feels he has nothing to add to the party dynamic