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Re: the fate of ATs

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:00 am
by Steve
Well, here is one thing:
Rangers and Paladins are not included because of their limited spell lists. If there is enough public desire to add them it is possible.
The second issue I find is that Divine Casters cannot Counterspell a Mords, correct?

The third issue I find is that, against mobs/bosses, the use of Counterspelling is essentially metagaming what the Player knows a particular mob/boss will do.

For example, if I take my caster to fight the Balor in Nashkel Mines, I'll cue up Counterspelling as I engage the Balor, so that my toon can survive the fight—and hopefully the Balor doesn't spam dispels.

So, in Counterspelling mechanics, does a Dispel counter a Dispel, automatically if in memory? Because then, for low CL builds, there would be a rather simply strategy to employ EVERY TIME when facing dispel casting mobs!! 8-)

Re: the fate of ATs

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:01 am
by Valefort
Greater Dispel against Greater Dispel should be a 50% chance if both casters are CL 20+, but better test it because I'm just reading the "how it should be" there :D

http://bgtscc.wikia.com/wiki/Counterspelling_Mechanics

Diviners can try to counter a mord with a greater dispel but the chances are low

Specifically Caster Level + d20 vs 11 + Caster Level

Mordenkainen's Disjunction has no caster level cap.
- Greater Dispel has a caster level cap of 20.
- Wall of Greater Dispel has a caster level cap of 20.
- Devour Magic has a caster level cap of 20.
- Dispel has a caster level cap of 15.
- Wall of Dispel has a caster level cap of 15.
- Voracious Dispelling has a caster level cap of 15.
- Lesser Dispel has a caster level cap of 10.

I have no idea what is the CL of the Mordenkainen on these mobs, someone would have to check.

Yes, it's completely metagaming the AI.

Re: the fate of ATs

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:41 pm
by matelener
1) Counterspelling with the same spell is currently broken. I also suggested some time ago that entering counterspell mode and exiting out of it should be instant and animation-less, just like Archmage's Mastery of Shaping or Energy. The paralysis after a counterspell try seems to be a bit long.

2) If AI metagames me, I don't see harm in metagaming AI in return in this case. But also, any mage should have prepared at least one Mordekeinen's at all times. And optimally, one greater dispel once counterspell is fixed.

3) The amount of dispels/breaches is still pretty high. If you argue that Character Level shouldn't be treated as Caster Level because that's not how it is in PnP, then I could argue that in PnP dispel magic is capped at +10.

4) We have to remember that rest timers are long and during that time you can encounter quite a few dispellers. Two bad dispels and a gish turns into a fighter weaker by 10 levels.

Re: the fate of ATs

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:10 pm
by Steve
If 1) is true, then that is a big problem. I've proposed many times in the past that it is nearly impossible to NOT meta game the Server, after the first, maybe second time you've visited an area (or even just read the Forums! :shock: )...so 2) isn't really a problem, more a strategy. 3) isn't an issue so much as Greater Dispel which caps at 20. Dispel at 15—as it currently stands—may wreck havoc on a few builds before they get Practised caster feat in the build plan. As for 4), I rest my case...oh wait, wrong discussion! But seriously, casters supposedly need a full night rest for memorizing a complete Spellbook. But if greater time between resting is a bitter tasting pill, there is greater casting times to consider, which would slow down casting for mages, which opens up disruption attacks during casting, and such.

Re: the fate of ATs

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:25 pm
by Calodan
As for 4), I rest my case...oh wait, wrong discussion! But seriously, casters supposedly need a full night rest for memorizing a complete Spellbook. But if greater time between resting is a bitter tasting pill, there is greater casting times to consider, which would slow down casting for mages, which opens up disruption attacks during casting, and such.
VIDEO GAME *SLAPS STEVE* :lol:

All this lets make it take your soul and act like a real life job is just BS man.

Re: the fate of ATs

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:37 pm
by Steve
NERF ALL CASTERS!!

NERF ALL EVERYTHING!!!

NERFAPOCALYOSEDESTROYALLKNOWNPLAMESOFEXISTENCETHENGETAFTERAOIRESTMYCASEJUDGEJURYEXECUTIONER!!!!

This Game is so much F.U.N.

Re: the fate of ATs

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:42 pm
by chad878262
Steve wrote:NERF ALL CASTERS!!

NERF ALL EVERYTHING!!!

NERFAPOCALYOSEDESTROYALLKNOWNPLAMESOFEXISTENCETHENGETAFTERAOIRESTMYCASEJUDGEJURYEXECUTIONER!!!!

This Game is so much F.U.N.
You misspelled "PLANES" in your big many words in one thing... :P

Sorry, couldn't help myself...I'll go now.

*steals Kory's soul...now you have to RCR him in to a warlock*

Re: the fate of ATs

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:54 pm
by Steve
The bane of my existence is my phones typing autocorrect.

Not dispels! :twisted: