New Speartop mobs

[Legofsalmon]

Disclaimer: I haven't been to this area myself yet (though if Tfunke's previous work is anything to go by I can't wait!)

Hi, just adding my thoughts on possible frustrations players could have when making their way to an epic boss encounter. Usually if I find myself struggling against a monster the only time I feel slightly annoyed is if I feel that the encounter doesn't really fit with my perception of power. Slaying dragons solo and then getting killed by a goblin might irritate some players for instance if they feel it's just due to bad scaling of stats and isn't explainable.

That said I don't think content creators should have to stick to the generic perceptions of power, it's fun to turn convention on it's head afterall. For instance my first thought with this encounter was, a troll that can cast epic spells, how did that happen?! If there was some kind of story element or lead up to these powerful creatures it would feel alright. I've personally never even been to the White Dragon so I have no idea what it's like up there but maybe some kind of clue or story that you're heading to where a great creature resides? And perhaps these trolls and spiders are his most powerful and loyal guardians who have a battlecry in his name as you approach it?

Those are just my thoughts on the roleplay/story elements anyway, I don't know much about the balance side. Maybe some people should offer to go up there with Tfunke and test it out!

[Calodan]

EDIT: Why should all areas be easy for a solo character? I suppose the Area Builders could just make more areas like the stone giant fortress where you literally CAN'T get in solo, but in some cases they just make things hard enough that generally speaking it requires a group for survival. nothing wrong with that... It's not about making people avoid areas so much as providing areas where folks can form a party (you know, like in D&D) and still have a challenge. Generally, area's that are soloable, while perhaps ok for grinding xp, do not provide a group challenge for adventure RP. If a dungeon requires a group of appropriate level PC's (non-power builds) to take it slow, fight with tactics, fall back and regroup once in a while, I think that is really cool. Again, if it is a death sentence unless you are 5 level 30 PB's then it should be toned down. ///EDIT

I guess they do not. However if they are it means that there should be some trickle effect in sub par builds getting some new life here. Just a thought process. Does not mean I am right. I am just thinking that DM events are where you provide limitations. I believe firmly the everyday world we walk should be easy for even the sub par builds because they are the top 10% of the Realm. So when we go to do really big stuff like DM events they do not have to throw so much at a praty of adventurers mechanically because there are more people with builds that are prone to RP instead of mechanical need.

I can not stress enough that I was at first building for RP flavor here but once I got to DM events and epic content it was insanely hard and I lost enjoyment of this game there until I made a semi PB with Kory to survive. Key word here is Survive. That was just to survive. I still get waxed bad in most DM events.

I will run Kory up the Speartop later this evening and get back to you on how hard it really is. I am sure Valeforts build being a RP build and one of those melee builds that needs serious consideration for a buffing would not like a place like that. However I am happy that the mobs match the challenge at the end if that is the case. The place was seriously off kilter for mobs around it. Only the strongest monsters and denizens would be near a dragon cave.

Sorry Steve. It was not my intention to anger you. I think you and I represent opposing views and tend to clash. My bad. I will work on how I word my posts so as not to come off as hostile to the other view. I just do not agree with it.

[Wyatt]

A large part of the issue seems to be that different people enjoy different aspects of the game. Some enjoy pushing the limit of having their character solo content while others wish to pursue said content with a group of adventurers. In both cases oftentimes the desire is challenging content. As our server makes a fervent effort to cater to all playstyles as evenly as possible I suppose it makes the most sense to build to the lowest common denominator to cater to the widest variety of players. Perhaps rather than single spawns with 30+ ABs an area could be challenging via the number of spawns which might threaten to overwhelm a single character, providing the powerbuilder challenge while being a bit easier for a group of less mechanically sound RP focused adventurers?

[Snarfy]

Perhaps rather than single spawns with 30+ ABs an area could be challenging via the number of spawns which might threaten to overwhelm a single character, providing the powerbuilder challenge while being a bit easier for a group of less mechanically sound RP focused adventurers?

That's always an option, although by the sounds of it this area already has a sufficient respawn rate(along with the insane difficulty). The problem with high respawn rates, however, is that it inhibits groups from taking a moment to catch their breath and take a moment to adequately role-play an adventure/encounter. Personally speaking, I dont derive any enjoyment from(on the ultra-rare occassions when I actually find myself in an adventuring group) constantly having to fend off monsters spawning out of the weeds to the point where I dont even have enough time to rp/emote a simple "WTF" at the encounter(the xvart village and Nashkel foothills are prime examples here). Areas that spawn a steady stream of monsters and force players to be in fight or flight mode turn that area into grinding/minimal rp zones, and we have plenty(too many) of those as is, imho. Factor in nightmarishly tough mobs spamming epic save or die spells, KD, and the like.... well, forget about it, those areas cater to one style of play only, and it's not a role-play one.

[Darkcloud777]

I will gather a group and go there. Will report its party value.

[Legofsalmon]

The problem with high respawn rates, however, is that it inhibits groups from taking a moment to catch their breath and take a moment to adequately role-play an adventure/encounter

This is my biggest pet peeve about combining RP with fighting mobs! Definitely like the sound of fewer but tougher encounters.

[Kauaiian]

Having not been there myself (ever, on any PC), I like the idea that it's challenging and requires party play. Makes for an epic adventure, literally and something else to look foward to. I mean, really, a dragon's lair isn't supposed to be a walk in the park is it?

[chad878262]

Yeah, it might be an option to tone down the spawn rate, but leave most of the power. Personally I don't like epic spells on mobs (not exactly epic if three non-boss creatures are spamming it), but as Aelcar indicated the high rate of KD/Paralysis is probably the largest issue. I'll be online shortly and will join up with anyone that wants to go and see how tough it is for an epic party (I'll look for you darkcloud). My thought is it's ok to keep the mobs more powerful, but we just need to ensure we aren't spawning constant death incarnate by the dozen.

[Akroma666]

Hey Chad,
It would be nice to have a high spawn rate area for low epic grinding. I haven't been to the revamp area yet, but if there was a decent zone with good spawns for grinding like xvarts for low epics that would be nice.

[Snarfy]

It would be nice to have a high spawn rate area for low epic grinding. I haven't been to the revamp area yet, but if there was a decent zone with good spawns for grinding like xvarts for low epics that would be nice.

Question: Why exactly does any zone need to be adjusted to cater for grinding at all? Is the server still an RP one or...?

Back in my grinding days(*shudder*) the low epics used to flock to the trolls at the river north of the Fields of the dead and the lizard caves past the frost giant fortress. The XP and respawn rates haven't changed since then, and nothing is preventing grinding there now, except perhaps that low-epic grinding trends have shifted towards the Nashkel foothills, and maybe the Naga/Yuan-ti lair, both of which are already grind-centric/RP-minimal zones. I can think of several other zones off the top of my head where low-epics can go grind as well(epic orge/troll caves, Durlags, and Dragonspear to a lesser extent), and nothing is really preventing low-epics from getting the same grind-xp that they always have. It's fair to say that there are more areas for them than ever. Sorry, but I fail to see the reasoning in giving incentives for low-epics to grind even more.

[Akroma666]

It would be nice to have a high spawn rate area for low epic grinding. I haven't been to the revamp area yet, but if there was a decent zone with good spawns for grinding like xvarts for low epics that would be nice.

Question: Why exactly does any zone need to be adjusted to cater for grinding at all? Is the server still an RP one or...?

Back in my grinding days(*shudder*) the low epics used to flock to the trolls at the river north of the Fields of the dead and the lizard caves past the frost giant fortress. The XP and respawn rates haven't changed since then, and nothing is preventing grinding there now, except perhaps that low-epic grinding trends have shifted towards the Nashkel foothills, and maybe the Naga/Yuan-ti lair, both of which are already grind-centric/RP-minimal zones. I can think of several other zones off the top of my head where low-epics can go grind as well(epic orge/troll caves, Durlags, and Dragonspear to a lesser extent), and nothing is really preventing low-epics from getting the same grind-xp that they always have. It's fair to say that there are more areas for them than ever. Sorry, but I fail to see the reasoning in giving incentives for low-epics to grind even more.

People grind.. They like grinding if its fun. Its a medium rp server and the staff caters to both sides of the coin and tries to happy medium. To that, I am thankful. Low levels stink, same with low tier epics or any epic grinding on general.
Trying to offer a solution to the problem or concerns people are having with the area.

[Snarfy]

Low levels stink, same with low tier epics or any epic grinding on general.

*shrug* Low levels are a breeze AFAIC, level 10 in a week? No problem... (unless you're playing a pure arcane caster ). But, while low levels and low tier epics may stink(for some) to grind, then upping the spawn rate, and thus the RP rate, doesn't sound like much of a remedy. Unless of course you're the type who believes that massacring your way through mobs just to get to level 30 faster is somehow the point of playing here? Which isn't my cup of tea, and never has been, but I'm a bit of a grizzled old relic where leveling is concerned.

Trying to offer a solution to the problem or concerns people are having with the area.

The main concern expressed with this particular area seems to be the level of difficulty, not the spawn rates(which was a whole other tangent, likely brought up by me. My bad!).

If I can catch one of these groups going to the zone, I might just bring my level 28 melee character along... for laughs, if nothing else(because after reading the OP I know he's going to be taking a trip to the fugue faster than I can say omgwtfbbq).

[Valefort]

For the record the spawn rate I experienced there was fine (ie not high), anyway with the amount of people who are about to play the area we should get plenty of feedback ^^

[Snarfy]

I tried to catch up to a group up there, took my level 28 up the hill solo.... and I can safely say that I do not recommend anyone try the same

I did manage to kill one of the frost drakes, after it hit me with about 3 slows and 4 KD's, but the Avalancher I ran into afterward was just too much. It paralyzed me off the hop(briefly), had really high DR(I think I did maybe 15 damage max per hit, 5 - 10 on average, and took him down about 3% of his health), used chaos shield every 2 rounds... my poor fighter/WM/bodyguard was pretty much a sitting duck.

With a group I imagine it would have been far more manageable, and one of the members of the group of 7 epics up there confirmed as much.

[Calodan]

In a group this place is not bad. However we were a pretty strong party. Lord Stonehold, Elvina, Chord Silverstrings, Kory and some others were with us. We were able to wreck it pretty easily and even got our slayer on with the dragon and beat it but as I stated we were a strong group. Anytime you have a Dwarf, Spirit Shaman, Bard and FvS in the group you are going to wreck some stuff.