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Re: DEX 2Her - Master of the Longsword
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:20 pm
by Ambaryerno
Akroma666 wrote:
Let's say you didn't get it then, combat insight alone with int would present huge benefits from this class. I just don't agree with giving a class 2H fitness, with flurry of blows, knock down, coup de gras dps, and 1.5 Dex AC on cloth +4 armor. Not to mention you could sneak and worse, take 8 levels of assassin with combat insight and some int splash to just murder.
One option would be that certain abilities are unavailable if you take classes other than MotLS, or other select classes. This is how Kaedrin Fighter is balanced (the extra AB and AC bonuses don't apply if you take levels other than F, WM, or FB).
Remove flurry of blows completely or reduce the BAB to medium
The two additional attacks can be instead made as -5 and -10 AB (as per TWF) rather than at full BAB, which will help balance it. Even Hasted at High BAB this is still going to be nothing compared to what a dual-wielder can do with Perfect TWF.
Remove heavy armor proficiency and Dex penalty completely
Harness Fighting is in there for a particular reason, as part of the core concept of the class is rooted in historical WMA, for which harness fighting is a central tenant (harnischfechten vs. blossfechten).
Remove knockdown and it should be kept strictly based.
Based what?
And as above, KD is there for a particular reason. I'm willing to look at making Wrestling at Sword ONLY allow the player to use DEX for KD checks, (offensive and defensive) and receive the damage bonus to prone targets, but still has to TAKE the KD feat himself to actually KD an opponent. However the central idea of it is to establish difference between using raw power to KD (or resist being KD'ed by) an opponent, and using leverage and positioning (IE I'm not a particularly strong guy, but I've put others in my fencing class on the floor using leverage on the sword and a well-positioned foot).
Make it have a daze attack for 1 round
Don't all classes get Pommel Strike and the other maneuvers (IE Lunge)? I was assuming they did, which is why I didn't specify it in the progression. If not I'll add it.
Coupe de gras only hits once or twice at your highest ab and deals max damage and auto crits. This uses your whole attack and fails if the target is not dazed.
Coup-de-Gras is specified as a 1-time attack on a cooldown that only works against Prone targets (Lore: You pin a downed opponent to the ground and poke your sword-point or a dagger into his eye). Right now I have it as a standard action, but can make it a full round action. Especially as the multiplier increases on CdG II, and the bonus for having a dagger in inventory.
Remove skillful defense or move it further down the list.
I have no problem making it a higher-level feat. 18 sound good? This makes it one that has to be built towards before it comes into effect.
Remove or rework student of arms to work as is. Perhaps have it use parry instead.
Doesn't make sense to use Parry for an AB bonus. I think have a Martial skill makes sense, anyway, as there's some things that wouldn't fit cleanly under the other Lore categories (IE, weapons, armor, logistics, tactics, chain of command/organization, among others).
Consider adding sneak dice to the build, i would suggest once every 3-4 levels.
Just want to get a reasoning on this.
Re: DEX 2Her - Master of the Longsword
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:06 am
by Ambaryerno
Random feat ideas that I'm not ready to try inserting into the class yet, but am just floating for now.
These would expand more on the idea of that the MotLS is mean to switch between weapon types rather than stay with just one, by giving him some gear-specific special abilities:
Staff Flourish
The MotLS executes a rapid series of blows making use of both ends of a polearm. As a full round action, the MotLS makes a check on his opponent (type and DC TBD). If successful, for the next round when wielding any polearm-style weapon (staff, spear, halberd, etc) he is treated as if having Perfect Two Weapon Fighting, but at the cost of -3 damage for each attack. (Optional: Number of rounds increases 1 per, say, 10 class levels). This could replace Flurry of Blows or Greater Flurry
Half-Sword
The MotLS moves one hand onto the blade of his sword, shortening up his reach but increasing precision. As a full round action, the MotLS makes a check on his opponent (probably the same as for Staff Flourish). If successful, for the next round when wielding any sword two-handed the critical threat range increases by +2, but at the cost of -3 damage. This could replace Flurry of Blows or Greater Flurry.
Coup-de-Gras
Modification to the existing Coup-de-Gras: REQUIRE a dagger to be equipped in the main hand in order to activate the feat, but increase the multiplier to a flat X3 (rather than X2 with a bonus for having a dagger in inventory).
Also, this potential modification to Weapon Synergy II to balance it better:
Rather than Weapon Focus, Improved Crit, and Power Crit applying to ALL Weapons of Choice, they would apply to weapons of the same class. So if he takes Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword, it applies to all swords wielded 2H (longsword, greatsword). If he wants WF on a polearm, he must independently take it for a pole-type weapon (staff, halberd, etc).
Re: DEX 2Her - Master of the Longsword
Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:17 pm
by Ambaryerno
Revision #2:
Hit Dice: D8
BAB: High
Weapons: Simple, Martial
Armor: Light
High: Reflex
Low: Fort
Skill Points: 3
Class Skills: Bluff, Intimidate, Lore: History, Lore: Local, Lore: Martial (New Skill), Parry, Spot, Taunt, Tumble
Note: This class does NOT qualify as Fighter levels for Feat purposes. Optional: However he may take the Greater Weapon Focus and Epic Weapon Focus feats. Most Master of the Longsword abilities only work when wearing light or no armor (IE if a Master of the Longsword takes the Medium Armor Proficiency, he no longer benefits from those abilities if wearing medium armor).
Level 1 Weapons of Choice
Level 2 Weapon Synergy I
Level 3 Feint
Level 4
Level 5 Measured Blows I
Level 6 Disarm
Level 7 Skillfull Defense
Level 8 One With The Blade
Level 9
Level 10 Scholar of Arms
Level 11 Half-Sword
Level 12 Disabling Blow
Level 13 Vor
Level 14 Wrestling at Sword
Level 15
Level 16 Coup-de-Gras I
Level 17 Weapon Synergy II
Level 18 Mordhau
Level 19
Level 20 Provost of Arms
Level 21 Nach
Level 22 Coup-de-Gras II
Level 23 Staff Flourish
Level 24 Aggressive Defender
Level 25 Chink in the Armor
Level 26
Level 27 Master's Defense
Level 28
Level 29
Level 30 Master of Arms
Feat Descriptions
Weapons of Choice: At Level 1 the Master of the Longsword receives Weapons of Choice applying to two-handed swords, (any sword or sword-like weapon wielded in two hands, including longswords, falchions, scimitars, etc.) polearms, and daggers.
Weapon Synergy: At Level 2 the Master of the Longsword may wield any sword or sword-like weapon (IE bastard sword and katana) and polearm, even if he lacks the proficiency feat for it as long as he does so two-handed. At Level 17, he has undertaken sufficient study that he has discovered the similarities in how his weapons are wielded, and may apply any bonuses from Weapon Focus, Power Critical, or Improved Critical feats to one class of his Weapons of Choice (IE swords/sword-like weapons, polearms, or daggers. Note that taking feats in more than one qualifying weapon type, such as Weapon Focus: Longsword and Weapon Focus: Falchion, does not stack).
Feint: At Level 3 the Master of the Longsword receives the Feint feat for free, even if he doesn't meet the requirements.
Measured Blows: At Level 5, he gains the ability to focus on making precise attacks when wielding one of his Weapons of Choice By tightening up his movements and making smaller and quicker strikes. When this mode is activated, he gains +3 AB at the expense of -3 Damage.
Disarm: At Level 6 the Master of the Longsword receives the Disarm feat for free, even if he doesn't meet the requirements.
Skillful Defense: At Level 7, the Master of the Longsword has learned to defend himself with his weapons as if they were a shield in melee combat. He gains +1 AC (Shield) for every 6 ranks of Parry when fighting in Measured Blows. This only applies against melee weapons.
One With The Blade: At Level 8 the Master of the Longsword has achieved sufficient mastery with his weapons they have effectively become an extension of his body. He may therefore use his DEX for calculating AB when wielding any of his Weapons of Choice, even if the weapon would ordinarily not qualify for Weapon Finesse.
Student of Arms: The Master of the Longsword's knowledge of weapons lends him an intuitive grasp of their inherent properties, granting him bonuses in his skill at wielding his Weapons of Choice. At levels 10, 20, and 30 the Master of the Longsword gains 1 point to AB for every 10 ranks of Lore: Martial (New Skill). The bonus per 10 ranks is +1 at Level 10, +2 at Level 20, and +3 at Level 30.
Half-Sword: At Level 11, as a full round action the MotLS moves one hand onto the blade of his sword, shortening up his reach and reducing his power, but increasing precision. For the next round, when wielding any sword two-handed the critical threat range increases by +2, but at the cost of -3 damage. This ability has a 2-minute cooldown.
Disabling Blow: At Level 12 he may, as a full round action, make an attack that cripples his opponent and reduces their AB, Damage, and movement speed for a number of rounds equal to 1 round per three class levels. The target must make a Fort Save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier, and has a cool down of 2 minutes.
Vor: At Level 13 the Master of the Longsword's unrelenting assault when he has the initiative keeps his opponent off-balance and forces them to react to him. As a result, When the Master of the Longsword has the Initiative, the DC for Concentration Checks for any spells and abilities used by the opponent when engaged in melee combat are increased by 1 for every 5 class levels. This advantage is lost if the Master of the Longsword is Knocked Down or suffers a mental status effect (Dazed, Stunned, Etc.).
Wrestling at Sword: At Level 14 the Master of the Longsword now uses DEX for Knockdown checks in place of STR.
Coup-de-Gras: At Level 16, as a standard action the Master may deliver an attack against a prone opponent at his full BAB when a dagger is equipped in his main hand weapon. If the attack is successful the hit is an automatic Critical at the weapon's maximum damage. At Level 22 this is upgraded even further by granting +1 to the Critical Multiplier. This attack has a 2 minute cooldown.
Mordhau (Maneuver): At Level 18, as a full round action, the Master of the Longsword takes his sword by the blade, and swings it like a mace or hammer. If the blow connects, it deals his weapon's normal dice and enhancement bonus in bludgeoning damage (IE a longsword would deliver 1d8 + EB Bludgeoning). The target must then make a Fort save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier + his weapon size or be dazed for 1 round per 6 class levels. If the target fails this check by 10 or more, he is stunned for the same duration. Regardless of whether the attack hits or misses, the Master suffers an AB penalty of -2 for the next round. It has a cool down of 60 seconds.
Nach: The Master of the Longsword executes an attack which enables him to take control of the fight. At Level 21, as a Full Round Action, the Master of the Longsword makes an attack at his full BAB. If the attack is successful, the Master of the Longsword gains Initiative over that target for the duration of the fight, and Vor (see above) will apply as if he had Initiative from the beginning.
Staff Flourish: At Level 23, the Master of the Longsword executes a rapid series of blows making use of both ends of a polearm. After a full round action to prepare, for the next round when wielding any polearm-style weapon (staff, spear, halberd, etc) he is treated as if having Perfect Two Weapon Fighting, but at the cost of -3 damage for each attack. This ability has a 2 minute cooldown.
Aggressive Defender: At Level 24 the Master of the Longsword is constantly moving his weapon, ready to intercept any incoming blow even when he's attacking. Whenever using Measured Blows, he will automatically attempt to defend attacks that beat his AC. He only receives 1/2 his Parry skill added to the roll (DC = attackers attack roll) and doesn't receive a Riposte, but still attacks as normal.
Chink in the Armor: At Level 25 the Master of the Longsword has learned to spot and target the weaknesses in his opponent's armor. As a full round action he makes a spot check against a DC of (10 + Armor AC + Armor Enhancement) x 2. If successful, for the next 1 round per 3 class levels he gains +2 AB and +2 damage against that target. This ability has a 2 minute cooldown.
Master's Defense: At Level 27, the Master of the Longsword may add 1/2 his weapon's Enhancement Bonus as AC (Shield). This bonus stacks with his bonus for Skillfull Defense, and only applies against melee attacks.
Additional Feats
The following feats are available for selection at level-up:
Expanded Synergy (Requires Weapon Synergy II): The Master of the Longsword may apply his bonuses from Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, or Power Critical to another set of weapons from his Weapons of Choice (swords/sword-like weapons, polearms, or daggers).
Extended Flourish (Requires DEX 25): The Master of the Longsword extends his staff flourish by one round per 10 class levels, to a maximum of three rounds.
Break Fall (Require DEX 22): If knocked down, the Master of the Longsword makes a Tumble check against a DC set by his attacker's Knockdown Roll. If this check succeeds, the Master is able to escape the knockdown.
Harness Fighting (Requires Mobility, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Provost of Arms): If the Master of the Longsword takes the Medium and Heavy Armor Proficencies, he may now utilize his abilities when wearing Full or Half Plate armor.
Agile Harness Fighter (Requires Harness Fighting, DEX 25): The Max DEX bonus for wearing Full or Half Plate is increased by 2. This also stacks with the bonus for Mithral armor.
Additional Equipment
Ideas for new equipment:
Rondel
Type: Martial Weight: 1.0 pound(s)
Dmg Type: Piercing Size: Tiny
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 1d4
Feats: Martial
The rondel is a specialized form of dagger with a long, slender, needle-like point designed specifically for penetrating between the joints of plate armor. Its main purpose is to deliver a coup-de-gras to fallen opponents or to serve as a knight's last line of personal defense, however it has also become popular among merchants and tradesmen.
Polehammer
Type: Martial Weight: 8.0 pound(s)
Dmg Type: Bludgeoning and Piercing Size: Large
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 2d6
Feats: Martial
As armor grew heavier, weapons evolved to better contend with it, leading the conventional warhammer to develop into the polehammer. The polehammer consists of a hammer head at the end of a 6-8ft shaft, and is a favored weapon of heavily-armored knights. In addition to the hammer head, polehammer generally featured a reverse spike for punching holes through armor or for hooking knights off their horse, and a spike at the end for thrusting like a spear.
Zweihander
Type: Martial Weight: 10.0 pound(s)
Dmg Type: Slashing and Piercing Size: Large
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 3d4
Feats: Martial
The largest and most impressive of swords, these massive blades range as much as 6ft in total length. Because of their size these swords are actually wielded like polearms, and are often favored by wealthy mercenaries for contending with pike formations.
The biggest change in this version is that Harness Fighting is no longer part of the progression, but an additional feat that must be taken. The requirements are pretty stiff, requiring four feats: Dodge, Mobility, Medium Armor Proficiency, and Heavy Armor Proficiency. Without this feat the MotLS may wear medium or heavy armor if he takes the respective proficiencies, but he'll lose most of his abilities (exact ones TBD). Investing the feats to take Harness Fighting will allow him to apply those abilities again when wearing Full or Half Plate armor.
Edit: Forgot to modify Wrestling at Sword.
Re: DEX 2Her - Master of the Longsword
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:18 am
by Ambaryerno
Made a few further tweaks above:
Moved Half-Sword to Level 11.
Mordhau is now a progression feat, at Level 18.
Provost of Arms has been added as a requirement for Harness Fighting, to mitigate splashing Fighter, etc. for feat requirements.
Added Zweihander as a potential new weapon type. These would mechanically work like spears and be considered polearms, and would be differentiated from greatswords with a higher critical multiplier, but smaller threat range.
Re: DEX 2Her - Master of the Longsword
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:13 pm
by Ambaryerno
Bumping
Re: DEX 2Her - Master of the Longsword
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:03 pm
by Ambaryerno
Bumping. Never got feedback on the last round of updates:
Hit Dice: D8
BAB: High
Weapons: Simple, Martial
Armor: Light
High: Reflex
Low: Fort
Skill Points: 3
Class Skills: Bluff, Intimidate, Lore: History, Lore: Local, Lore: Martial (New Skill), Parry, Spot, Taunt, Tumble
Note: This class does NOT qualify as Fighter levels for Feat purposes. Optional: However he may take the Greater Weapon Focus and Epic Weapon Focus feats. Most Master of the Longsword abilities only work when wearing light or no armor (IE if a Master of the Longsword takes the Medium Armor Proficiency, he no longer benefits from those abilities if wearing medium armor).
Level 1 Weapons of Choice
Level 2 Weapon Synergy I
Level 3 Feint
Level 4
Level 5 Measured Blows I
Level 6 Disarm
Level 7 Skillfull Defense
Level 8 One With The Blade
Level 9
Level 10 Scholar of Arms
Level 11 Half-Sword
Level 12 Disabling Blow
Level 13 Vor
Level 14 Wrestling at Sword
Level 15
Level 16 Coup-de-Gras I
Level 17 Weapon Synergy II
Level 18 Mordhau
Level 19
Level 20 Provost of Arms
Level 21 Nach
Level 22 Coup-de-Gras II
Level 23 Staff Flourish
Level 24 Aggressive Defender
Level 25 Chink in the Armor
Level 26
Level 27 Master's Defense
Level 28
Level 29
Level 30 Master of Arms
Feat Descriptions
Weapons of Choice: At Level 1 the Master of the Longsword receives Weapons of Choice applying to two-handed swords, (any sword or sword-like weapon wielded in two hands, including longswords, falchions, scimitars, etc.) polearms, and daggers.
Weapon Synergy: At Level 2 the Master of the Longsword may wield any sword or sword-like weapon (IE bastard sword and katana) and polearm, even if he lacks the proficiency feat for it as long as he does so two-handed. At Level 17, he has undertaken sufficient study that he has discovered the similarities in how his weapons are wielded, and may apply any bonuses from Weapon Focus, Power Critical, or Improved Critical feats to one class of his Weapons of Choice (IE swords/sword-like weapons, polearms, or daggers. Note that taking feats in more than one qualifying weapon type, such as Weapon Focus: Longsword and Weapon Focus: Falchion, does not stack).
Feint: At Level 3 the Master of the Longsword receives the Feint feat for free, even if he doesn't meet the requirements.
Measured Blows: At Level 5, he gains the ability to focus on making precise attacks when wielding one of his Weapons of Choice By tightening up his movements and making smaller and quicker strikes. When this mode is activated, he gains +3 AB at the expense of -3 Damage.
Disarm: At Level 6 the Master of the Longsword receives the Disarm feat for free, even if he doesn't meet the requirements.
Skillful Defense: At Level 7, the Master of the Longsword has learned to defend himself with his weapons as if they were a shield in melee combat. He gains +1 AC (Shield) for every 6 ranks of Parry when fighting in Measured Blows. This only applies against melee weapons.
One With The Blade: At Level 8 the Master of the Longsword has achieved sufficient mastery with his weapons they have effectively become an extension of his body. He may therefore use his DEX for calculating AB when wielding any of his Weapons of Choice, even if the weapon would ordinarily not qualify for Weapon Finesse.
Student of Arms: The Master of the Longsword's knowledge of weapons lends him an intuitive grasp of their inherent properties, granting him bonuses in his skill at wielding his Weapons of Choice. At levels 10, 20, and 30 the Master of the Longsword gains 1 point to AB for every 10 ranks of Lore: Martial (New Skill). The bonus per 10 ranks is +1 at Level 10, +2 at Level 20, and +3 at Level 30.
Half-Sword: At Level 11, as a full round action the MotLS moves one hand onto the blade of his sword, shortening up his reach and reducing his power, but increasing precision. For the next round, when wielding any sword two-handed the critical threat range increases by +2, but at the cost of -3 damage. This ability has a 2-minute cooldown.
Disabling Blow: At Level 12 he may, as a full round action, make an attack that cripples his opponent and reduces their AB, Damage, and movement speed for a number of rounds equal to 1 round per three class levels. The target must make a Fort Save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier, and has a cool down of 2 minutes.
Vor: At Level 13 the Master of the Longsword's unrelenting assault when he has the initiative keeps his opponent off-balance and forces them to react to him. As a result, When the Master of the Longsword has the Initiative, the DC for Concentration Checks for any spells and abilities used by the opponent when engaged in melee combat are increased by 1 for every 5 class levels. This advantage is lost if the Master of the Longsword is Knocked Down or suffers a mental status effect (Dazed, Stunned, Etc.).
Wrestling at Sword: At Level 14 the Master of the Longsword now uses DEX for Knockdown checks in place of STR.
Coup-de-Gras: At Level 16, as a standard action the Master may deliver an attack against a prone opponent at his full BAB when a dagger is equipped in his main hand weapon. If the attack is successful the hit is an automatic Critical at the weapon's maximum damage. At Level 22 this is upgraded even further by granting +1 to the Critical Multiplier. This attack has a 2 minute cooldown.
Mordhau (Maneuver): At Level 18, as a full round action, the Master of the Longsword takes his sword by the blade, and swings it like a mace or hammer. If the blow connects, it deals his weapon's normal dice and enhancement bonus in bludgeoning damage (IE a longsword would deliver 1d8 + EB Bludgeoning). The target must then make a Fort save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier + his weapon size or be dazed for 1 round per 6 class levels. If the target fails this check by 10 or more, he is stunned for the same duration. Regardless of whether the attack hits or misses, the Master suffers an AB penalty of -2 for the next round. It has a cool down of 60 seconds.
Nach: The Master of the Longsword executes an attack which enables him to take control of the fight. At Level 21, as a Full Round Action, the Master of the Longsword makes an attack at his full BAB. If the attack is successful, the Master of the Longsword gains Initiative over that target for the duration of the fight, and Vor (see above) will apply as if he had Initiative from the beginning.
Staff Flourish: At Level 23, the Master of the Longsword executes a rapid series of blows making use of both ends of a polearm. After a full round action to prepare, for the next round when wielding any polearm-style weapon (staff, spear, halberd, etc) he is treated as if having Perfect Two Weapon Fighting, but at the cost of -3 damage for each attack. This ability has a 2 minute cooldown.
Aggressive Defender: At Level 24 the Master of the Longsword is constantly moving his weapon, ready to intercept any incoming blow even when he's attacking. Whenever using Measured Blows, he will automatically attempt to defend attacks that beat his AC. He only receives 1/2 his Parry skill added to the roll (DC = attackers attack roll) and doesn't receive a Riposte, but still attacks as normal.
Chink in the Armor: At Level 25 the Master of the Longsword has learned to spot and target the weaknesses in his opponent's armor. As a full round action he makes a spot check against a DC of (10 + Armor AC + Armor Enhancement) x 2. If successful, for the next 1 round per 3 class levels he gains +2 AB and +2 damage against that target. This ability has a 2 minute cooldown.
Master's Defense: At Level 27, the Master of the Longsword may add 1/2 his weapon's Enhancement Bonus as AC (Shield). This bonus stacks with his bonus for Skillfull Defense, and only applies against melee attacks.
Additional Feats
The following feats are available for selection at level-up:
Expanded Synergy (Requires Weapon Synergy II): The Master of the Longsword may apply his bonuses from Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, or Power Critical to another set of weapons (swords/sword-like weapons, polearms, or daggers).
Extended Flourish (Requires DEX 25): The Master of the Longsword extends his staff flourish by one round per 10 class levels, to a maximum of three rounds.
Break Fall (Require DEX 22): If knocked down, the Master of the Longsword makes a Tumble check against a DC set by his attacker's Knockdown Roll. If this check succeeds, the Master is able to escape the knockdown.
Harness Fighting (Requires Mobility, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Provost of Arms): If the Master of the Longsword takes the Medium and Heavy Armor Proficencies, he may now utilize his abilities when wearing Full or Half Plate armor.
Agile Harness Fighter (Requires Harness Fighting, DEX 25): The Max DEX bonus for wearing Full or Half Plate is increased by 2. This also stacks with the bonus for Mithral armor.
Additional Equipment
Ideas for new equipment:
Rondel
Type: Martial Weight: 1.0 pound(s)
Dmg Type: Piercing Size: Tiny
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 1d4
Feats: Martial
The rondel is a specialized form of dagger with a long, slender, needle-like point designed specifically for penetrating between the joints of plate armor. Its main purpose is to deliver a coup-de-gras to fallen opponents or to serve as a knight's last line of personal defense, however it has also become popular among merchants and tradesmen.
Polehammer
Type: Martial Weight: 8.0 pound(s)
Dmg Type: Bludgeoning and Piercing Size: Large
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 2d6
Feats: Martial
As armor grew heavier, weapons evolved to better contend with it, leading the conventional warhammer to develop into the polehammer. The polehammer consists of a hammer head at the end of a 6-8ft shaft, and is a favored weapon of heavily-armored knights. In addition to the hammer head, polehammers generally featured a reverse spike for punching holes through armor or for hooking knights off their horse, and a spike at the end for thrusting like a spear.
Zweihander
Type: Martial Weight: 10.0 pound(s)
Dmg Type: Slashing and Piercing Size: Large
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 3d4
Feats: Martial
The largest and most impressive of swords, these massive blades range as much as 6ft in total length. Because of their size these swords are actually wielded like polearms, and are often favored by wealthy mercenaries for contending with pike formations.
Re: DEX 2Her - Master of the Longsword
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:13 pm
by chad878262
Ambaryerno wrote:Weapons of Choice: At Level 1 the Master of the Longsword receives Weapons of Choice applying to two-handed swords, (any sword or sword-like weapon wielded in two hands, including longswords, falchions, scimitars, etc.) polearms, and daggers
Might work better if they are required to pick a 'weapon class' here, such as heavy swords (Great Sword, Falchion, Bastard Sword), or standard swords (Long Sword, Scimitar, Katana), or Polearms (Halberd, Scythe, Spear, maybe quarterstaff?). This (I think) will make it easier to apply the synergy feats and it makes things 'even' essentially giving you feats for 3 different types of weapon for the price of one. Also, would be better to list all weapons you would like to be selectable instead of 'etc.' I listed the ones that come to my mind when I think about the class, but different interpretations means I could be thinking about it differently than how you intend. Daggers don't belong here, can't use with two hands so they shouldn't be on the list.
Ambaryerno wrote:Weapon Synergy: At Level 2 the Master of the Longsword may wield any sword or sword-like weapon (IE bastard sword and katana) and polearm, even if he lacks the proficiency feat for it as long as he does so two-handed. At Level 17, he has undertaken sufficient study that he has discovered the similarities in how his weapons are wielded, and may apply any bonuses from Weapon Focus, Power Critical, or Improved Critical feats to one class of his Weapons of Choice (IE swords/sword-like weapons, polearms, or daggers. Note that taking feats in more than one qualifying weapon type, such as Weapon Focus: Longsword and Weapon Focus: Falchion, does not stack).
I'm thinking this should come later in the leveling and, perhaps to make it 'simple' you could treat it a bit like the Whirling Dervish with skill focus feats. For instance, level 2 they could get free Exotic Weapon Proficiency (for Bastard Sword and Katana). Then, instead of the above where there are a bunch of 'ifs' you could grant the character 'free' Weapon Focus at level 5 where they pick Weapon Focus: Great Sword, Weapon Focus: Longsword, or Weapon Focus: Halberd and then they are given the other two weapon focus feats for free (as listed above). Further, you could grant Power Crit at level 10, Improved Crit at 15 (for instance).
Ambaryerno wrote:Feint: At Level 3 the Master of the Longsword receives the Feint feat for free, even if he doesn't meet the requirements.
Putting this at 3 leaves it somewhat open to abuse (no need for 13 INT or Combat Expertise). I would prefer it come later, at least 5, probably more like ~7.
Ambaryerno wrote:Skillful Defense: At Level 7, the Master of the Longsword has learned to defend himself with his weapons as if they were a shield in melee combat. He gains +1 AC (Shield) for every 6 ranks of Parry when fighting in Measured Blows. This only applies against melee weapons.
I would go +1 / 10 ranks... A Tower Shield is +4 AC, -2 AB... Making this every 6 ranks equates to AC 5 at no penalty, that's better than Tumble and for only requiring 7 levels. +1 is better than a medium shield (and shield potions/wands/use per day items can give another +4 enhancement shield bonus). In order to avoid this being a 7 letter Fighter dip class (and to save some skill points I would advise maybe this should just be +1 shield AC at level 10 and every 10 levels for +3 Shield AC at level 30.
Ambaryerno wrote:One With The Blade: At Level 8 the Master of the Longsword has achieved sufficient mastery with his weapons they have effectively become an extension of his body. He may therefore use his DEX for calculating AB when wielding any of his Weapons of Choice, even if the weapon would ordinarily not qualify for Weapon Finesse.
The subject of Finesse on Longswords inevitably came up in QC when we were discussing BladeSinger and it was not well thought of. While I wouldn't say this is a certain 'no' based on this class or the feat brought up separately, I would say level 8 might be too early to award it. Might want to go around ~16 or so.
Ambaryerno wrote:Student of Arms: The Master of the Longsword's knowledge of weapons lends him an intuitive grasp of their inherent properties, granting him bonuses in his skill at wielding his Weapons of Choice. At levels 10, 20, and 30 the Master of the Longsword gains 1 point to AB for every 10 ranks of Lore: Martial (New Skill). The bonus per 10 ranks is +1 at Level 10, +2 at Level 20, and +3 at Level 30.
Needlessly complex, instead of adding a whole new skill just grant +1 AB at 10, 20, 30.
Ambaryerno wrote:Half-Sword: At Level 11, as a full round action the MotLS moves one hand onto the blade of his sword, shortening up his reach and reducing his power, but increasing precision. For the next round, when wielding any sword two-handed the critical threat range increases by +2, but at the cost of -3 damage. This ability has a 2-minute cooldown.
Would want to ensure this doesn't stack with WM Increased Critical Threat Range(but can stack with Improved Crit). Otherwise you could have Scimitar WM landing crits on 10 or better.
Ambaryerno wrote:Wrestling at Sword: At Level 14 the Master of the Longsword now uses DEX for Knockdown checks in place of STR.
This is essentially what Trip/Improved Trip was and it was rejected. I don't see why this would be let through, but maybe.
Ambaryerno wrote:Coup-de-Gras: At Level 16, as a standard action the Master may deliver an attack against a prone opponent at his full BAB when a dagger is equipped in his main hand weapon. If the attack is successful the hit is an automatic Critical at the weapon's maximum damage. At Level 22 this is upgraded even further by granting +1 to the Critical Multiplier. This attack has a 2 minute cooldown.
This why Dagger was on the list? Has no synergy with the rest of the class. Dagger is a finesse weapon and there is already the Invisible Blade and Daggerspell Mage. However, as it is now written I see no reason the ability couldn't apply to one of the weapons in his arsenal (great swords, swords, or polearms). Otherwise the attack critting with an extra multiplyer only when opponent is prone is fine...Though see above with the analogy between using DEX for Knockdown and (Improved) Trip.
Ambaryerno wrote:Vor: At Level 13 the Master of the Longsword's unrelenting assault when he has the initiative keeps his opponent off-balance and forces them to react to him. As a result, When the Master of the Longsword has the Initiative, the DC for Concentration Checks for any spells and abilities used by the opponent when engaged in melee combat are increased by 1 for every 5 class levels. This advantage is lost if the Master of the Longsword is Knocked Down or suffers a mental status effect (Dazed, Stunned, Etc.).
Ambaryerno wrote:Nach: The Master of the Longsword executes an attack which enables him to take control of the fight. At Level 21, as a Full Round Action, the Master of the Longsword makes an attack at his full BAB. If the attack is successful, the Master of the Longsword gains Initiative over that target for the duration of the fight, and Vor (see above) will apply as if he had Initiative from the beginning.
Initiative is kind of clunky in the NWN2 Engine (think it has to do with personal initiative vs. opposed initiative rolls, but I don't recall.) I am not sure if/how these abilities would work.
Ambaryerno wrote:Staff Flourish: At Level 23, the Master of the Longsword executes a rapid series of blows making use of both ends of a polearm. After a full round action to prepare, for the next round when wielding any polearm-style weapon (staff, spear, halberd, etc) he is treated as if having Perfect Two Weapon Fighting, but at the cost of -3 damage for each attack. This ability has a 2 minute cooldown.
I would come up with a different ability based on if the MoL is based on Great Sword, Sword or Polearm. This ability means nothing unless they went the polearm route. Also, not sure if this is even possible from a coding perspective (NWN2 doesn't have double weapons, so not sure it can do this.)
Ambaryerno wrote:Aggressive Defender: At Level 24 the Master of the Longsword is constantly moving his weapon, ready to intercept any incoming blow even when he's attacking. Whenever using Measured Blows, he will automatically attempt to defend attacks that beat his AC. He only receives 1/2 his Parry skill added to the roll (DC = attackers attack roll) and doesn't receive a Riposte, but still attacks as normal.
This is needlessly complex and attempts to use parry mode when it is not active. Not saying it can't be done, but why not use Deadly Defense as a model... Here you have CE giving +3 AC for -3 AB and the feat adds 1-4 damage when CE is active. By the same token why not this feat make measured blows grant an additional +2 AC (so -3 damage for +3 AB, + 2 AC).
Ambaryerno wrote:Master's Defense: At Level 27, the Master of the Longsword may add 1/2 his weapon's Enhancement Bonus as AC (Shield). This bonus stacks with his bonus for Skillfull Defense, and only applies against melee attacks.
Even with the lesser number I already provided this would bring shield AC to +5 with no cost (+9 with a potion/wand/item to cast shield from). Seems a bit much.
Ambaryerno wrote:Additional Feats
The following feats are available for selection at level-up:
Expanded Synergy (Requires Weapon Synergy II): The Master of the Longsword may apply his bonuses from Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, or Power Critical to another set of weapons (swords/sword-like weapons, polearms, or daggers).
Extended Flourish (Requires DEX 25): The Master of the Longsword extends his staff flourish by one round per 10 class levels, to a maximum of three rounds.
Break Fall (Require DEX 22): If knocked down, the Master of the Longsword makes a Tumble check against a DC set by his attacker's Knockdown Roll. If this check succeeds, the Master is able to escape the knockdown.
Harness Fighting (Requires Mobility, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Provost of Arms): If the Master of the Longsword takes the Medium and Heavy Armor Proficencies, he may now utilize his abilities when wearing Full or Half Plate armor.
Agile Harness Fighter (Requires Harness Fighting, DEX 25): The Max DEX bonus for wearing Full or Half Plate is increased by 2. This also stacks with the bonus for Mithral armor.
These all get a no from me... Granting PTWF with the benefits of great weapon fighting and none of the drawbacks of either, granting a dozen feats at the cost of 3 to be able to use a wide array of weapons, d20 + Strength (knockdown check) is not a fair check against tumble + d20... Tumble 30 would almost always succeed. Using Medium/Heavy Armor has little synergy with the class and doesn't make sense. With DEX score somewhere at 20 or higher (for AB and AC) MFP only gains 1 AC so it's not a power thing...it just doesn't make sense. Increasing the Max DEX makes it make sense, but is insanely OP (MFP with an AC 8 and +5 DEX? No)
Overall I think you would be disappointed by this class as it would likely be more survivable, but just as frustrating as a rogue type sneak attack character. In epics your lack of any damage potential will cause you to fail to get through enemies Damage Resistance. Were it me, I would focus less on trying to make another Dwarven Defender out of new/home brewed feats and abilities and more on trying to balance out the AC, AB and Damage. As it stands this class looks to me like it would get AC And AB in to the 50's easily, but damage would be AWFUL. DEX to damage is a no go as no stat helps AC and AB and Damage all at once and I don't think that will or should change. However, more abilities that serve to supplement damage might be nice. Maybe your mode you created lessens the damage penalty at X and then negates it at Y so it is just +3 AB? Maybe some of the abilities created that increase AB at the cost of damage and some of the abilities for AC become damage abilities.
Right now this is an ultimate tank build that could whittle down enemies very slowly, but against epic mobs it won't make a scratch except when it crits with some of it's special abilities... Even then they may despawn before they're dead.
Re: DEX 2Her - Master of the Longsword
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:34 pm
by Ambaryerno
Lots of feedback here, thanks. Going to have to read over it a couple times before making adjustments.
Re: DEX 2Her - Master of the Longsword
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:40 pm
by Ambaryerno
Hit Dice: D8
BAB: High
Weapons: Simple, Martial
Armor: Light
High: Reflex
Low: Fort
Skill Points: 3
Class Skills: Bluff, Intimidate, Lore: History, Lore: Local, Lore: Martial (New Skill), Parry, Spot, Taunt, Tumble
Note: This class does NOT qualify as Fighter levels for Feat purposes. Optional: However he may take the Greater Weapon Focus and Epic Weapon Focus feats. Most Master of the Longsword abilities only work when wearing light or no armor (IE if a Master of the Longsword takes the Medium Armor Proficiency, he no longer benefits from those abilities if wearing medium armor). All require him to be using a two-handed sword or polearm no larger than one size class larger than him (IE, for a human they only apply to Medium and Large weapons, and only wielded in two hands).
Level 1 Measured Blows I
Level 2
Level 3
Level 4
Level 5 Half-Sword
Level 6 Disarm
Level 7 Skillfull Defense
Level 8
Level 9 Weapon Synergy I
Level 10 Scholar of Arms
Level 11 Feint
Level 12 Disabling Blow
Level 13 Vor
Level 14 Wrestling at Sword
Level 15 Lightning Blows
Level 16 Coup-de-Gras I
Level 17 One With The Blade
Level 18 Mordhau
Level 19 Weapon Synergy II
Level 20 Provost of Arms
Level 21 Nach
Level 22 Coup-de-Gras II
Level 23
Level 24 Aggressive Defender
Level 25 Chink in the Armor
Level 26
Level 27 Master's Defense
Level 28
Level 29
Level 30 Master of Arms
Feat Descriptions
Measured Blows: At Level 1, he gains the ability to focus on making precise attacks when wielding one of his Weapons of Choice By tightening up his movements and making smaller and quicker strikes. When this mode is activated, he gains +3 AB at the expense of -3 Damage.
Half-Sword: At Level 5, as a full round action the MotLS moves one hand onto the blade of his sword, shortening up his reach and reducing his power, but increasing precision. For the next round, when wielding any sword two-handed the critical threat range increases by +2, but at the cost of -3 damage. This ability has a 2-minute cooldown. It does not stack with the Weapon Master's increased multiplier
Disarm: At Level 6 the Master of the Longsword receives the Disarm feat for free, even if he doesn't meet the requirements.
Skillful Defense: At Level 7, the Master of the Longsword has learned to defend himself with his weapons as if they were a shield in melee combat. He gains +1 AC (Shield) for every 10 ranks of Parry when fighting in Measured Blows. This only applies against melee weapons.
Weapon Synergy: At Level 9 the Master of the Longsword may wield any sword or sword-like weapon (IE bastard sword and katana) and polearm, even if he lacks the proficiency feat for it as long as he does so two-handed. At Level 19, he has undertaken sufficient study that he has discovered the similarities in how his weapons are wielded, and may apply any bonuses from Weapon Focus, Power Critical, or Improved Critical feats to all weapons in its type (two-handed swords, or polearms). Note that having feats in more than one weapon of a type (IE if the character has Weapon Focus Longsword and Weapon Focus Greatsword, the bonuses do not stack).
Student of Arms: The Master of the Longsword's knowledge of weapons lends him an intuitive grasp of their inherent properties, granting him bonuses in his skill at wielding his Weapons of Choice. At levels 10, 20, and 30 the Master of the Longsword gains 1 point to AB for every 10 ranks of Lore: Martial (New Skill). The bonus per 10 ranks is +1 at Level 10, +2 at Level 20, and +3 at Level 30.
Feint: At Level 11 the Master of the Longsword receives the Feint feat for free, even if he doesn't meet the requirements.
Disabling Blow: At Level 12 he may, as a full round action, make an attack that cripples his opponent and reduces their AB, Damage, and movement speed for a number of rounds equal to 1 round per three class levels. The target must make a Fort Save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier, and has a cool down of 2 minutes.
Vor: At Level 13 the Master of the Longsword's unrelenting assault when he has the initiative keeps his opponent off-balance and forces them to react to him. As a result, When the Master of the Longsword has the Initiative, the DC for Concentration Checks for any spells and abilities used by the opponent when engaged in melee combat are increased by 1 for every 5 class levels. This advantage is lost if the Master of the Longsword is Knocked Down or suffers a mental status effect (Dazed, Stunned, Etc.).
Wrestling at Sword: At Level 14 the Master of the Longsword now uses DEX for Knockdown checks in place of STR.
Lightning Blows: At Level 15 the Master of the Longsword executes a rapid series of blows with his weapon. After a full round action to prepare, for the next round he gains an additional bonus attack equal to half his normal number of attacks rounded down, to a maxium of 3 bonus attacks. This comes at the cost of -3 damage, with a -5 AB for each subsequent bonus attack. For example, if he normally has four attacks, for one round he gains two additional attacks at his BAB -20 and -25. This ability has a 2 minute cooldown.
Coup-de-Gras: At Level 16, as a standard action the Master may deliver an attack against a prone opponent at his full BAB. If the attack is successful the hit is an automatic Critical at the weapon's maximum damage. At Level 22 this is upgraded even further by granting +1 to the Critical Multiplier. This attack has a 2 minute cooldown.
One With The Blade: At Level 17 the Master of the Longsword has achieved sufficient mastery with his weapons they have effectively become an extension of his body. He may therefore use his DEX for calculating AB when wielding any of his Weapons of Choice, even if the weapon would ordinarily not qualify for Weapon Finesse.
Mordhau (Maneuver): At Level 18, as a full round action, the Master of the Longsword takes his sword by the blade, and swings it like a mace or hammer. If the blow connects, it deals his weapon's normal dice and enhancement bonus in bludgeoning damage (IE a longsword would deliver 1d8 + EB Bludgeoning). The target must then make a Fort save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier + his weapon size or be dazed for 1 round per 6 class levels. If the target fails this check by 10 or more, he is stunned for the same duration. Regardless of whether the attack hits or misses, the Master suffers an AB penalty of -2 for the next round. It has a cool down of 60 seconds.
Nach: The Master of the Longsword executes an attack which enables him to take control of the fight. At Level 21, as a Full Round Action, the Master of the Longsword makes an attack at his full BAB. If the attack is successful, the Master of the Longsword gains Initiative over that target for the duration of the fight, and Vor (see above) will apply as if he had Initiative from the beginning.
Aggressive Defender: At Level 24 the Master of the Longsword is constantly moving his weapon, ready to intercept any incoming blow even when he's attacking. Whenever using Measured Blows, he gains an additional +2 AC.
Chink in the Armor: At Level 25 the Master of the Longsword has learned to spot and target the weaknesses in his opponent's armor. As a full round action he makes a spot check against a DC of (10 + Armor AC + Armor Enhancement) x 2. If successful, for the next 1 round per 3 class levels he gains +2 AB and +2 damage against that target. This ability has a 2 minute cooldown.
Master's Defense: At Level 27, the Master of the Longsword may add 1/2 his weapon's Enhancement Bonus as AC (Shield). This bonus stacks with his bonus for Skillfull Defense, and only applies against melee attacks.
Additional Feats
The following feats are available for selection at level-up:
Expanded Synergy (Requires Weapon Synergy II, 19 INT): The Master of the Longsword may apply his bonuses from Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, or Power Critical to all qualifying weapons.
Extended Flourish (Requires DEX 25): The Master of the Longsword extends his flourish by one round per 10 class levels, to a maximum of three rounds.
Break Fall (Require DEX 22): If knocked down, the Master of the Longsword can make a second check using his DEX modifier. If the roll succeeds, he escapes the knockdown.
Harness Fighting (Requires Mobility, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Provost of Arms): If the Master of the Longsword takes the Medium and Heavy Armor Proficencies, he may now utilize his abilities when wearing Full or Half Plate armor.
Agile Harness Fighter (Requires Harness Fighting, DEX 25): The Max DEX bonus for wearing Full or Half Plate is increased by 2. This also stacks with the bonus for Mithral armor.
Additional Equipment
Ideas for new equipment:
Rondel
Type: Martial Weight: 1.0 pound(s)
Dmg Type: Piercing Size: Tiny
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 1d4
Feats: Martial
The rondel is a specialized form of dagger with a long, slender, needle-like point designed specifically for penetrating between the joints of plate armor. Its main purpose is to deliver a coup-de-gras to fallen opponents or to serve as a knight's last line of personal defense, however it has also become popular among merchants and tradesmen.
Polehammer
Type: Martial Weight: 8.0 pound(s)
Dmg Type: Bludgeoning and Piercing Size: Large
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 2d6
Feats: Martial
As armor grew heavier, weapons evolved to better contend with it, leading the conventional warhammer to develop into the polehammer. The polehammer consists of a hammer head at the end of a 6-8ft shaft, and is a favored weapon of heavily-armored knights. In addition to the hammer head, polehammers generally featured a reverse spike for punching holes through armor or for hooking knights off their horse, and a spike at the end for thrusting like a spear.
Zweihander
Type: Martial Weight: 10.0 pound(s)
Dmg Type: Slashing and Piercing Size: Large
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 3d4
Feats: Martial
The largest and most impressive of swords, these massive blades range as much as 6ft in total length. Because of their size these swords are actually wielded like polearms, and are often favored by wealthy mercenaries for contending with pike formations.
Changes
The main changes are as follows:
Moved Measured Blows to Level 1
Moved Feint to Level 11.
Dropped Weapons of Choice. This really seems pretty unnecessary to have an entire feat for, and would likely confuse too much with Weapon Master.
Adjusted level for Weapon Synergy I and II.
Adjusted ranks for Skillful Defense.
One with the Blade moved to Level 17.
Noted Half-Sword does not stack with Weapon Master increased critical. Also moved the feat to Level 5.
Removed note on dagger from Coup-de-Gras.
Used recommendation on Aggressive Defender.
Changed Break Fall so that it allows the MotLS to roll again using DEX if his first KD check fails.
Added INT requirement for Expanded Synergy.
Reworked Staff Flourish into Lightning Blows, and moved to Level 15
Re: DEX 2Her - Master of the Longsword
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:08 pm
by Ambaryerno
Some more playing:
Hit Dice: D8
BAB: High
Weapons: Simple, Martial
Armor: Light
High: Reflex
Low: Fort
Skill Points: 3
Class Skills: Bluff, Intimidate, Lore: History, Lore: Local, Lore: Martial (New Skill, this could be made a class skill for Fighter, Weapon Master, Dwarven Defender, etc., as well), Parry, Spot, Taunt, Tumble
Note: This class does NOT qualify as Fighter levels for Feat purposes. Optional: However he may take the Greater Weapon Focus and Epic Weapon Focus feats. Most Master of the Longsword abilities only work when wearing light or no armor (IE if a Master of the Longsword takes the Medium Armor Proficiency, he no longer benefits from those abilities if wearing medium armor). All require him to be using a two-handed sword or polearm no larger than one size class larger than him (IE, for a human they only apply to Medium and Large weapons, and only wielded in two hands).
Level 1 Measured Blows I
Level 2
Level 3
Level 4
Level 5 Half-Sword
Level 6 Disarm
Level 7 Skillfull Defense
Level 8
Level 9 Weapon Synergy I
Level 10 Scholar of Arms
Level 11 Feint
Level 12 Disabling Blow
Level 13 Vor
Level 14 Wrestling at Sword
Level 15
Level 16 Coup-de-Gras I
Level 17 One With The Blade
Level 18 Mordhau
Level 19 Weapon Synergy II
Level 20 Provost of Arms
Level 21 Relentless Barrage
Level 22 Coup-de-Gras II
Level 23
Level 24 Aggressive Defender
Level 25 Chink in the Armor
Level 26 Insightful Strike
Level 27 Master's Defense
Level 28
Level 29
Level 30 Master of Arms
Feat Descriptions
Measured Blows: At Level 1, he gains the ability to focus on making precise attacks when wielding one of his Weapons of Choice By tightening up his movements and making smaller and quicker strikes. When this mode is activated, he gains +3 AB at the expense of -3 Damage.
Half-Sword: (Modal) At Level 5, when fighting in Measured Blows, the MotLS moves one hand onto the blade of his sword, shortening up his reach and reducing his power, but increasing precision. Once activated, when wielding any sword two-handed the critical threat range increases by +2, but at the cost of -2 damage. It does not stack with the Weapon Master's increased multiplier. If the Master comes out of Measured Blows Half-Sword is disabled.
Disarm: At Level 6 the Master of the Longsword receives the Disarm feat for free, even if he doesn't meet the requirements.
Skillful Defense: At Level 7, the Master of the Longsword has learned to defend himself with his weapons as if they were a shield in melee combat. He gains +1 AC (Shield) for every 10 ranks of Parry when fighting in Measured Blows. This only applies against melee weapons.
Weapon Synergy: At Level 9 the Master of the Longsword may wield any sword or sword-like weapon (IE bastard sword and katana) and polearm, even if he lacks the proficiency feat for it as long as he does so two-handed. At Level 19, he has undertaken sufficient study that he has discovered the similarities in how his weapons are wielded, and may apply any bonuses from Weapon Focus, Power Critical, or Improved Critical feats to all weapons in its type (two-handed swords, or polearms). Note that having feats in more than one weapon of the same type (IE if the character has Weapon Focus Longsword and Weapon Focus Greatsword) the bonuses do not stack.
Student of Arms: The Master of the Longsword's knowledge of weapons lends him an intuitive grasp of their inherent properties, granting him bonuses in his skill at wielding his Weapons of Choice. At levels 10, 20, and 30 the Master of the Longsword gains 1 point to AB for every 10 ranks of Lore: Martial (New Skill). The bonus per 10 ranks is +1 at Level 10, +2 at Level 20, and +3 at Level 30.
Feint: At Level 11 the Master of the Longsword receives the Feint feat for free, even if he doesn't meet the requirements.
Disabling Blow: At Level 12 he may, as a full round action, make an attack that cripples his opponent and reduces their AB, Damage, and movement speed for a number of rounds equal to 1 round per three class levels. The target must make a Fort Save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier, and has a cool down of 2 minutes.
Vor: At Level 13 the Master of the Longsword's unrelenting assault takes the initiative, and keeps his opponent off-balance and forces them to react to him. As a full round action, the Master of the Longsword makes an attack at his full BAB. If the attack is successful, for the next 1 round per 6 class levels the Master takes control of the fight, and during this time the opponent's DC for Concentration Checks for any spells and abilities used by the opponent when engaged in melee combat are increased by 1 for every 6 class levels.
Wrestling at Sword: At Level 14 the Master of the Longsword now uses DEX for Knockdown checks in place of STR. If Half-Sword is active, he may add his weapon's Enhancement Bonus to his roll.
Coup-de-Gras: At Level 16, as a standard action the Master may deliver an attack against a prone opponent at his full BAB. If the attack is successful the hit is an automatic Critical at the weapon's maximum damage. At Level 22 this is upgraded even further by granting +1 to the Critical Multiplier. This attack has a 2 minute cooldown.
One With The Blade: At Level 17 the Master of the Longsword has achieved sufficient mastery with his weapons they have effectively become an extension of his body. Whenever wielding any polearm or a sword two-handed, his weapon is considered to be a finesse weapon.
Mordhau (Maneuver): At Level 18, as a full round action, the Master of the Longsword takes his sword by the blade, and swings it like a mace or hammer. If the blow connects, it deals his weapon's normal dice and enhancement bonus in bludgeoning damage (IE a longsword would deliver 1d8 + EB Bludgeoning). The target must then make a Fort save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier + his weapon size or be dazed for 1 round per 6 class levels. If the target fails this check by 10 or more, he is stunned for the same duration. Regardless of whether the attack hits or misses, the Master suffers an AB penalty of -2 for the next round. It has a cool down of 60 seconds.
Relentless Barrage: At Level 21, whenever the Master of the Longsword succeeds with his Vor attack, his opponent must make a Reflex save modified by the Vor penalty, against a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier. If this roll fails, he suffers an additional penalty of -2 to AC and AB for as long as the Master is in Vor.
Aggressive Defender: At Level 24 the Master of the Longsword is constantly moving his weapon, ready to intercept any incoming blow even when he's attacking. Whenever using Measured Blows, he gains an additional +2 AC.
Chink in the Armor: At Level 25 the Master of the Longsword has learned to spot and target the weaknesses in his opponent's armor. As a full round action he makes a spot check against a DC of (10 + Armor AC + Armor Enhancement) x 2. If successful, for the next 1 round per 3 class levels he gains +2 AB and +2 damage against that target. This ability has a 2 minute cooldown.
Insightful Strike: At Level 26, the Master of the Longsword receives the Insightful Strike feat.
Master's Defense: At Level 27, the Master of the Longsword may add 1/2 his weapon's Enhancement Bonus as AC (Shield). This bonus stacks with his bonus for Skillfull Defense, and only applies against melee attacks.
Additional Feats
The following feats are available for selection at level-up:
Expanded Synergy (Requires Weapon Synergy II, 19 INT): The Master of the Longsword may apply his bonuses from Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, or Power Critical to all qualifying weapons.
Break Fall (Require DEX 22): If knocked down, the Master of the Longsword can make a second check using his DEX modifier. If the roll succeeds, he escapes the knockdown.
A note on the below: Because harnischfechten (armored fighting) is a central part of the martial arts from which this class draws influence, I'm trying to find SOME way to work it in.
Harness Fighting (Requires Mobility, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Chink in the Armor): If the Master of the Longsword takes the Heavy Armor Proficency, he may now utilize his abilities when wearing Full or Half Plate armor.
Agile Harness Fighter (Requires Harness Fighting, DEX 25): The Max DEX bonus for wearing Full or Half Plate is increased by 2. This also stacks with the bonus for Mithral armor.
Additional Equipment
Ideas for new equipment:
Rondel
Type: Martial Weight: 1.0 pound(s)
Dmg Type: Piercing Size: Tiny
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 1d4
Feats: Martial
The rondel is a specialized form of dagger with a long, slender, needle-like point designed specifically for penetrating between the joints of plate armor. Its main purpose is to deliver a coup-de-gras to fallen opponents or to serve as a knight's last line of personal defense, however it has also become popular among merchants and tradesmen.
Polehammer
Type: Martial Weight: 8.0 pound(s)
Dmg Type: Bludgeoning and Piercing Size: Large
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 2d6
Feats: Martial
As armor grew heavier, weapons evolved to better contend with it, leading the conventional warhammer to develop into the polehammer. The polehammer consists of a hammer head at the end of a 6-8ft shaft, and is a favored weapon of heavily-armored knights. In addition to the hammer head, polehammers generally featured a reverse spike for punching holes through armor or for hooking knights off their horse, and a spike at the end for thrusting like a spear.
Zweihander
Type: Martial Weight: 10.0 pound(s)
Dmg Type: Slashing and Piercing Size: Large
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 3d4
Feats: Martial
The largest and most impressive of swords, these massive blades range as much as 6ft in total length. Because of their size these swords are actually wielded like polearms, and are often favored by wealthy mercenaries for contending with pike formations.
Re: DEX 2Her - Master of the Longsword
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:46 am
by Ambaryerno
Another thought on the Student of Arms series of feats:
Scholar of Arms - +1 AB per 5 ranks Lore (Martial).
Provost of Arms - Disabling Blow now applies bleeding damage for its duration of effect.
Master of Arms - Each round the Master lands a successful attack while Vor is active, the AC and AB penalties increase by 2.
This will lose +3 AB, however it would build on elements of the class (particularly Disabling Blow and Vor) that provide spawn control, especially if Vor, Disabling Blow, Taunt, and Feint all stack.
Edit with more tweaks:
Master of the Longsword
The Master of the Longsword is a professional warrior trained in the use of two-handed swords and polearms who, rather than relying on raw power, makes use of speed and finesse to harry his opponents with an accurate barrage of blows to keep them off-balance. Unlike the Weapon Master he doesn't heavily specialize in one type of weapon, but has instead studied the synergy between a wide range of equipment, and is able to utilize them all equally to their fullest extent, if at the cost of
Hit Dice: D8
BAB: High
Proficiencies
Weapons: Simple, Martial
Armor: Light
Saves
High: Reflex
Low: Fort
Skill Points: 3
Class Skills: Bluff, Intimidate, Lore: History, Lore: Local, Lore: Martial (New Skill, this could be made a class skill for Fighter, Weapon Master, Dwarven Defender, etc., as well), Parry, Spot, Taunt, Tumble
Note: This class does NOT qualify as Fighter levels for Feat purposes. Optional: However he may take the Greater Weapon Focus and Epic Weapon Focus feats.
Master of the Longsword abilities only work when wearing light or no armor (IE if a Master of the Longsword takes the Medium Armor Proficiency, he no longer benefits from those abilities if wearing medium armor). All require him to be using a two-handed sword or polearm no larger than one size class larger than him (IE, for a human they only apply to Medium and Large weapons, and only wielded in two hands).
Level 1 Measured Blows
Level 2
Level 3
Level 4
Level 5 Half-Sword
Level 6 Disarm
Level 7 Skillfull Defense
Level 8
Level 9 Weapon Synergy I
Level 10 Scholar of Arms
Level 11 Feint
Level 12 Disabling Blow
Level 13 Vor
Level 14 Wrestling at Sword
Level 15
Level 16 Coup-de-Gras I
Level 17 One With The Blade
Level 18 Mordhau
Level 19 Weapon Synergy II
Level 20 Provost of Arms
Level 21 Relentless Barrage
Level 22 Coup-de-Gras II
Level 23
Level 24 Aggressive Defender
Level 25 Chink in the Armor
Level 26 Insightful Strike
Level 27 Master's Defense
Level 28
Level 29
Level 30 Master of Arms
Feat Descriptions
Measured Blows: At Level 1, he has trained to make precise attacks when wielding one of his weapons by tightening up his movements and making smaller and quicker strikes, gaining accuracy at the expense of damage. When this mode is activated, he gains +3 AB at the expense of -3 Damage.
Half-Sword: (Scripted Modal) At Level 5, when fighting in Measured Blows, the MotLS can elect to movesone hand onto the blade of his sword, shortening up his reach and reducing his power, but further increasing precision. Once activated, when wielding any sword two-handed the damage type changes to Piercing and critical threat range increases by +2, but at the cost of a further -2 damage. It does not stack with the Weapon Master's increased multiplier, but will stack with Keen or Improved Critical. If the Master comes out of Measured Blows for any reason once activated, Half-Sword is disabled.
Disarm: At Level 6 the Master of the Longsword receives the Disarm feat for free, even if he doesn't meet the requirements.
Skillful Defense: At Level 7, the Master of the Longsword has learned to defend himself with his weapons as if they were a shield in melee combat. He gains +1 AC (Shield) for every 10 ranks of Parry when fighting in Measured Blows. This only applies against melee weapons, and only against his current target.
Weapon Synergy: At Level 9 the Master of the Longsword may wield any sword or sword-like weapon (IE bastard sword and katana) and polearm even if he lacks the proficiency feat for it, as long as he does so two-handed. At Level 19, he has undertaken sufficient study that he has mastered the similarities in how his weapons are wielded, and may apply any bonuses from Weapon Focus, Power Critical, or Improved Critical feats to all weapons in its type (two-handed swords, or polearms). Note that having feats in more than one weapon of the same type (IE if the character has Weapon Focus Longsword and Weapon Focus Greatsword) does not stack.
Scholar of Arms: The Master of the Longsword's knowledge of weapons lends him an intuitive grasp of their inherent properties, granting him bonuses in his skill at wielding his qualifying weapons. He gains an addition +1 AB for every 5 ranks of Lore (Martial).
Feint: At Level 11 the Master of the Longsword receives the Feint feat for free, even if he doesn't meet the requirements.
Disabling Blow: At Level 12 he may, as a full round action, make an attack that cripples his opponent and reduces their AB and Damage by -2, as well as reducing their movement speed, for a number of rounds equal to 1 round per five class levels. The target must make a Fort Save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier to avoid the penalty, and has a cool down of 2 minutes.
Vor: At Level 13 the Master of the Longsword's unrelenting assault takes the initiative, and keeps his opponent off-balance and forces them to react to him. As a full round action, the Master of the Longsword makes an attack at his full BAB. If the attack is successful, for the next 1 round per five class levels the Master takes control of the fight, and during this time the opponent's DC for Concentration Checks on any spells and abilities used by the opponent when engaged in melee combat are increased by 1 for every 6 class levels. It has a 2-minute cool down.
Wrestling at Sword: At Level 14 the Master of the Longsword now uses DEX for Knockdown checks in place of STR. If Half-Sword is active, he may add his weapon's Enhancement Bonus to his roll.
Coup-de-Gras: At Level 16, as a standard action the Master may deliver an attack against a prone opponent at his full BAB. If the attack is successful the hit is an automatic Critical at the weapon's maximum damage. At Level 22 this is upgraded even further by granting +1 to the Critical Multiplier. This attack has a 2 minute cool down.
One With The Blade: At Level 17 the Master of the Longsword has achieved sufficient mastery with his weapons they have effectively become an extension of his body. Whenever wielding any polearm or a sword two-handed, his weapon is considered to be a finesse weapon, and may use DEX for AB.
Mordhau: At Level 18, as a full round action, the Master of the Longsword takes his sword by the blade, and swings it like a mace or hammer. If the blow connects, it deals his weapon's normal dice and enhancement bonus in bludgeoning damage (IE a longsword would deliver 1d8 + EB Bludgeoning). The target must then make a Fort save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier + his weapon size or be dazed for 1 round per 6 class levels. If the target fails this check by 10 or more, he is stunned for the same duration. Regardless of whether the attack hits or misses, the Master suffers an AB penalty of -2 for the next round. It has a cool down of 60 seconds.
Provost of Arms: At Level 20 the Master of the Longsword has further refined his technique for harrying his opponents, and can now inflict devastating bleeding wounds against his opponent. Disabling Blow now applies one point bleeding damage per six class levels for its duration of effect.
Relentless Barrage: At Level 21, whenever the Master of the Longsword succeeds with his Vor attack, his opponent must make a Reflex save modified by the Vor penalty against a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier. If this roll fails, he suffers an additional penalty of -2 to AC and AB for as long as the Master is in Vor.
Aggressive Defender: At Level 24 the Master of the Longsword is constantly moving his weapon, ready to intercept any incoming blow even when he's attacking. Whenever using Measured Blows, he gains +3 AC in addition to his AB bonus against his current opponent. It only applies against melee attacks.
Chink in the Armor: At Level 25 the Master of the Longsword has learned to spot and target the weaknesses in his opponent's armor. As a full round action he makes a spot check against a DC of (10 + Armor AC + Armor Enhancement) x 2. If successful, for the next 1 round per 3 class levels he gains +2 AB and +2 damage against that target. This ability has a 2 minute cooldown.
Insightful Strike: At Level 26, the Master of the Longsword receives the Insightful Strike feat.
Master's Defense: At Level 27, the Master of the Longsword may add 1/2 his weapon's Enhancement Bonus as AC (Shield) against his current target. This bonus stacks with his bonus for Skillful Defense, and only applies against melee attacks.
Master of Arms: The Master of the Longsword has fully mastered his weapons, to the point that his attacks come so quickly and furiously he may press his opponents beyond their ability to keep up. As a result, each round the Master lands a successful attack while Vor is active, the AC and AB penalties suffered by his opponent increase by 2.
Additional Feats
The following feats are some ideas for additional abilities available for selection at level-up:
Expanded Synergy (Requires Weapon Synergy II, 19 INT): The Master of the Longsword may apply his bonuses from Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, or Power Critical to all qualifying weapons.
Break Fall (Require DEX 21): If knocked down, the Master of the Longsword can make a second check using his DEX modifier. If the roll succeeds, he escapes the knockdown.
Multifighting (Require DEX 25, INT 19, Aggressive Defender): The Master of the Longsword has carefully studied footwork and angles to better defend himself against multiple opponents. He may now apply his AC bonuses to all opponents engaging him in melee range, not just his current target.
A note on the below: Because harnischfechten (armored fighting) is a central part of the martial arts from which this class draws influence, I'm trying to find SOME way to work it in.
Harness Fighting (Requires Mobility, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Chink in the Armor): If the Master of the Longsword takes the Heavy Armor Proficency, he may now utilize his abilities when wearing Full or Half Plate armor.
Agile Harness Fighter (Requires Harness Fighting, DEX 25): The Max DEX bonus for wearing Full or Half Plate is increased by 2. This also stacks with the bonus for Mithral armor.
Additional Equipment
Some ideas for new equipment:
Rondel
Type: Martial Weight: 1.0 pound(s)
Dmg Type: Piercing Size: Tiny
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 1d4
Feats: Martial
The rondel is a specialized form of dagger with a long, slender, needle-like point designed specifically for penetrating between the joints of plate armor. Its main purpose is to deliver a coup-de-gras to fallen opponents or to serve as a knight's last line of personal defense, however it has also become popular among merchants and tradesmen.
Polehammer
Type: Martial Weight: 8.0 pound(s)
Dmg Type: Bludgeoning and Piercing Size: Large
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 2d6
Feats: Martial
As armor grew heavier, weapons evolved to better contend with it, leading the conventional warhammer to develop into the polehammer. The polehammer consists of a hammer head at the end of a 6-8ft shaft, and is a favored weapon of heavily-armored knights. In addition to the hammer head, polehammers generally featured a reverse spike for punching holes through armor or for hooking knights off their horse, and a spike at the end for thrusting like a spear.
Zweihander
Type: Martial Weight: 10.0 pound(s)
Dmg Type: Slashing and Piercing Size: Large
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 3d4
Feats: Martial
The largest and most impressive of swords, these massive blades range as much as 6ft in total length. Because of their size these swords are actually wielded like polearms, and are often favored by wealthy mercenaries for contending with pike formations.
Re: DEX 2Her - Master of the Longsword
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:06 pm
by Ambaryerno
Some random feat ideas, either as part of the progression or available for selection:
Parting Strike
As a full round action the Master of the Longsword executes a quick cut to the top of his opponent's scalp, to distract him by opening a wound that will bleed into his eyes. The attack is made at his full BAB, and if it connects the target is blinded for the next round.
Ward of the Fool
The Master of the Longsword assumes a ward position offering his opponent an opening, intending to lure him into an attack to set up a counter. Whenever Parry is enabled, he gains a +5 bonus to his check (this one could be made available to all characters).
Doubling
When an opponent blocks his attack, the Master of the Longsword uses the contact to bounce around for a follow-up strike. If an opponent Parries an attack, but does NOT receive a Riposte, the Master of the Longsword may make a second roll at the same BAB to attempt to beat the Parry (not sure if this one can actually be made to work).
Penetrating Thrust
When fighting in Half-Sword, the Master of the Longsword gains 1 point of penetration against non-magical damage reduction per 10 class levels. Chink in the Armor increases this to +2.
Re: DEX 2Her - Master of the Longsword
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:35 pm
by K'yon Oblodra
Have you thought about making your class a PrC?
I feel like there is just too much to balance if you provide feats for 30 levels. Also while I see your idea behind the class it being a nimble two-handed weapon fighter it doesn't have a clear design.
The abilities you give are offering different bonuses or negative conditions to the opponent but not in a way that they build up on each other.
All your moves kind of fit your idea of the nimble fighter but from the mechanics feel a bit random. My suggestion would be to focus on a certain mechanic and utilize it in as many feats as possible.
Why not make him rely on small cuts that deliver bleedings that could stack up and if he has a certain amounts of stacks he could hit with another attack that might cause another condition which would be in turn be the prerequisite for the final killing blow.
5 bleed stacks enable that blinding attack and a blinded opponent in turn can be hit with final thrust which would be an attack which aims at the heart of the target offering tons of extra damage possibly more so the lower the hp of the target would be.
Something along these lines would fit the image you created with the more attacks but less damage but would feel a bit more cohesive.
Also not needing 30 levels but maybe just 10 would make it all easier, easier to balance easier to follow for those checking your stuff and easier to find abilities for without having to come up with an enormous amount of feats.
Or if you feel you need to go the base class route think about giving it bonus feats out of a selection of existing feats that grant the feeling you want the class to have (knock down, improved knockdown, expertise, improved parry dunno what else floats your boat).
Also keep in mind that there are restrictions on the game's engine tinkering with attack patterns is most likely impossible (thinking your idea with the parried attacks, don't think that's possible).
Lastly I really wonder, the idea of a nimble two-hander... From what I know you wield these weapons with two hands cause they are so heavy, in a duel from what I heard most people doing some kind of fencing would prefer the rapier like weapons because they are so fast and relatively long so they can deliver quick attacks and then return to a safe distance. Now a two-hander has more range but without a ton of strength you won't be able to move it fast and even if you have the strength to move it fast it should still be much slower than a light weapon like a rapier.
Two-hander have been used on crowded battlefields to cut breaches from my knowledge but rarely in duels.
I am no expert on this as I don't do fencing but yea feels weird to me

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Re: DEX 2Her - Master of the Longsword
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:23 pm
by Ambaryerno
As a PrC there's too much potential crossover with Weapon Master, thus I went the base class route. Thus going with it as a base class.
I have built in a number of techniques that would synergize quite well. Disabling Blow and Vor especially would work quite well together, especially at higher levels, once Vor adds additional AB and AC penalties.
I'm happy to look at ways to tweak that idea of synergy further, but I'm really needing someone to provide some specific examples so I can see how to implement it.
Regarding the weapon weights...
(warning, dissertation to follow)
True story: Rapiers are actually heavy swords. Although their blades are very slender, they're also quite LONG (40" or longer aren't unusual. In fact Elizabeth I specifically decreed a maximum length for rapier blades in England because things got so ridiculous) and somewhat thick in cross-section, since they need to be quite stiff. It requires a lot of counterweighting to balance, and the short hilt of the rapier meant it needed to be quite heavy to accomplish the job (by contrast, the long hilt of a longsword placed the counterweight further from the guard, meaning you needed a proportionately lighter hilt for the same job). What makes the rapier agile is the fact all the weight is concentrated in the handle, so the point of balance is very close to the hand. Ultimately, you're usually talking about 2.5-3lbs for a rapier, which may not sound like much. But you need to remember DnD is ATROCIOUS when it comes to its weights, and many weapons (longsword, bastard sword, and greatsword ESPECIALLY) are significantly overweight.
The classic Medieval arming sword (roughly analogous to the DnD longsword) only weighed about 2lbs. The longsword (which was a fully two-handed sword, mechanically much closer to the DnD greatsword) tipped the scales at around 3.5-4lbs maximum, with many examples that were down in the 2.5lb range. However much depends on the exact typology, as the longsword was in use for the better part of some four centuries, peaking in popularity during the late-14th through late-16th centuries, and as a result there was a bit of variance in what swords fall under the classification.
Your early Type XII and XIII swords tended to be the heaviest and had their point of balance further out on the blade, since they originated in the period where mail armor was still the primary form of protection. The blade needed to be heavier to smash through the mail, or break the bones beneath with blunt force trauma. By contrast, the slender XVIIIb was among the lighter examples, and generally balanced fairly closely to the guard. These examples began appearing in the 15th century as plate armor became more widespread, necessitating a narrower blade for thrusting into gaps since a sword was not going to cut or smash through rigid plate. However they were still capable of delivering very effecting cuts and slices.
The sword I train with is 3lbs, and that's a 40" blade, so it's a very impressive-looking sword.
The rapier was well-suited to dueling and brawling in the narrow confines of city streets because they don't require the same room to maneuver. However the longsword is still a very fast and nimble weapon. and that's partly the function of the second hand. When swinging a longsword, the front hand is merely the fulcrum. It generally directs where the sword is going to go, but much of the maneuvering of the point is done with the trailing hand. This allows for some very rapid twitching cuts, while still allowing for quite powerful blows.
Weapons such as the halberd and polehammer (keep in mind, I'm not talking the stereotypical "block of iron on a pole" type of hammer. Polehammers had a head not much larger than your modern carpenter's claw hammer) are also quite fast because of how they're actually wielded. It's possible to make very short and quick cuts and swings depending on how close to the far end your forward hand is on the haft.
Thus why I'd draw the line between two-handed swords and polearms (note: the big, 6ft zweihanders were as a rule wielded half-sword in the fechtbucher, so would functionally be more like a polearm than a sword) being your "finesse" 2Hers, while leaving the axes and warmaces as your "mashers."
Re: DEX 2Her - Master of the Longsword
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:33 pm
by Aspect of Sorrow
There is no reason to assume that D&D is anything but influenced by RL things, rather than trying to emulate it.