Up CL for PC crafted potions/scrolls to CL 25.

[Storm Munin]

It might spoil the gaming experience somewhat to do, say, a single casting of Wail of the Banshee to craft a wand, and then have access to 50 uses of Wail of the Banshee before rest/recharge of the wand?

But grinding and pvp to some extent would be easier, thats true.

[Calodan]

It might spoil the gaming experience somewhat to do, say, a single casting of Wail of the Banshee to craft a wand, and then have access to 50 uses of Wail of the Banshee before rest/recharge of the wand?

But grinding and pvp to some extent would be easier, thats true.

Or a Bigby once it is fixed too right? I get the point on that for sure. There are some spells that are supposed to be a niche for that caster I guess but in PnP........LOL no not going there I am a big advocate of this not being PnP ha ha.....

[Steve]

You can create a wand of any spell of 4th level or less that you know.

Limitations: The in-game description states that you can craft a wand of any spell up to 4th level that you know. This is false. While most of the spells of 4th level and below can be used, not ALL spells may be used to craft a wand. For example, you cannot craft a wand using the spells Aura of Glory, Divine Favor, Protection from Arrows, and Shocking Grasp to name a few (there are others).

I don't think BGTSCC can overcome this limit, unless Rasael's complete sell system rework was implemented (which it is not atm).

[Steve]

Any Staff reaction on whether scroll/Rune CLs can be increased upwards in the range of 25? Thanks.

[Steve]

*bump*

[dzidek1983]

As I said in other thread. NO

You want good buffs take a caster with you. And you can be pretty sure that's the staff's mind on this matter.

[Sun Wukong]

Why would we want to make wands less optimal? I buy wands because they are the best value.

And if scrolls/potions become the best value, I think you would buy them instead.

But the thing is, you just need 10 points in UMD to use wands. None for Potions. As for scrolls, more or less: Lvl 1(DC13), Lvl 2(DC15), Lvl 3(DC17), Lvl 4(DC19), Lvl 5(DC21), Lvl 6(DC23), Lvl 7(DC25), Lvl 8(DC27), Lvl 9(DC29).

Wands can be recharged. Even if scrolls and/potions become cheaper, wands remain the far more accessible and reliable source of buffs.

[Steve]

As I said in other thread. NO

You want good buffs take a caster with you. And you can be pretty sure that's the staff's mind on this matter.

As for what you said in the other thread, which I have quoted below, the Limit for scrolls/potions would be set at 25—which leaves a 25% dispelability at lvl 30—not full equality like you interpret.

UMD has all the power it should have. You cast the spell with the level that is scribed/brewed etc.

Seriously. This thread demands that a spell drunk from a bottle by a farmer or cast from a scroll by a lvl 30 gardener has the same power as cast by a lvl 30 wizard from his spellbook. People wake up.

[chad878262]

I've posted in QC about reducing the cost to brew potions and craft scrolls, since potions can already be CL30. Not a whole lot of opposition to reducing the costs, I think it is more just a matter of it never really gaining traction and thus being a low priority. My suggestion was something to the effect of reducing the cost to craft potions down to 30 gp *SL *CL (reduced from 50) with the Master Alchemist reducing the base modifier down to 20gp. Scrolls would be reduced from 25 gp modifier down to 15 or 10. At the time I had looked at what vendors offer to purchase such scrolls and potions and it was rarely more than ~100-500 gp, and always far less than the cost would be, even at the reduced modifiers.

There are some very nice potions that can be crafted, though as Neon Avenger stated some such as GMW and Deez's Repulsive Shadow Barrier have caps, which I personally do not agree with, but it is how the system is currently implemented. Still, you can get Potions up to level 7 spells which means Elixirs of Greater Heroism, Shadow Shield, Energy Immunity, etc. are all able to be crafted up to the full Caster Level (max 30) of the Master Alchemist. Sadly, the cost is more than almost all players are willing to pay. I think I once sold a stack of 10 Greater Invisibility potions at CL20 to a player and may have sold one or two other elixirs, here or there. However, it is far more common to have a player rage OOC'ly at me for trying to ask for so much money per potion. A CL30 Elixir of Shadow Shield costs 6,300 gp under the current price structure, while reducing it to 20 gp modifier for Master Alchemist level 5 would bring the cost down to 4,200. While that may still seem high, when you consider that it gives 30 minutes of Negative Energy Immunity, Natural AC +5 and DR 10/ Adamantine I am pretty sure the cost is warranted and frankly at 4,200 to me it seems a fair price. It should be the type of potion you only use when it is really needed. In addition, for 'grinding' or boss battles where you won't worry about dispels you could always take a CL13 or 15 elixir, since none of the bonuses are CL dependent. Currently a CL15 potion of Shadow Shield costs 3,150 gold, if we used the reduced prices the cost would be 2,100. The benefit, in addition to potions requiring no UMD is that Wands only go up to level 4 spells, while Master Alchemist allows for brewing up to level 7. Scrolls are cheaper, but elixirs can go up to your caster level (max 30). It gives Elixirs a couple of distinct advantages so it's important they remain the more expensive option, which they would, even with reducing the cost to 30 gp (20 w/ MA). Reducing Scrolls to 15 would make them equal to the cost of a wand per charge, but more expensive when you consider the wand can be recharged so reducing the cost to scribe scroll down to 10 makes sense IMO and makes RP between Wizards exchanging spells a bit more palatable.

Just my thoughts on this as I have been playing a Master Alchemist for several months and have been wanting to have the costs reduced for potions and scrolls that entire time. When you build for crafting, you tend to be fairly focused on the RP around crafting, but when the only thing anyone is interested in is wands it makes the investment simply not worth it. Even with the MA discount, Wands are currently more convenient and cost about 1/2 as much per use. Reducing the cost of Elixirs to 20gp base would make it so that wands cost about 25% less which is still significant, but would at least make players consider relying on potions instead of investing skill points in UMD. In addition it would make some of the more powerful Elixirs something players might consider paying for.

[dzidek1983]

Tell me please why do you need this change? Or in the other topic the change to the HD based CL? Why do you need the UMD to be undispellable and with durations almost of wizardly standards?

[chad878262]

Tell me please why do you need this change? Or in the other topic the change to the HD based CL? Why do you need the UMD to be undispellable and with durations almost of wizardly standards?

Well, the idea behind creating the Master Alchemist class was to bring a certain type of RP and make certain mercantile transactions between players more attractive, but the problem is that potions and scrolls are simply far and away cheaper at vendors and only wands are worthwhile to purchase from PC's (and probably only because the important wands are not available from vendors). Not really sure what you are talking about with the HD/CL since, as I said, that is not a change. Master Alchemist can craft CL30 potions today. It's just unfortunate they are too expensive for anyone to consider purchasing them.

[Steve]

Tell me please why do you need this change? Or in the other topic the change to the HD based CL? Why do you need the UMD to be undispellable and with durations almost of wizardly standards?

My Character does not want to die. He has learned that even his magics will fail him, against superior Casters. He also knows there are even more superior Casters out there, that should be able to provide him with scrolls of the highest possible magics...but alas, there is some unknown force that limits this possibility.

It must be the doing of Ao....

[dzidek1983]

The question was directed to you not your character. Why do You need it?

[Steve]

As well, I question whether potions should be craftable to Lvl 30. Potions are way better than scrolls, because there is no failure there...well, except for:

[Steve]

The question was directed to you not your character. Why do You need it?

You might as well be asking why I need to play this game!!