Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Steve wrote:2. I mentioned that I—a subpar builder if you ask Invoker —has put together a non-EDM Bard that focuses on CHA and songs and is perfectly viable and fun-to-play on BGTSCC. I'm sure if you would ask M3nt or Valefort to put together a Song-focused Bard, you'd see that it is totally worth it AS IS, on BGTSCC.

http://s5.favim.com/orig/141125/funny-g ... 263575.jpg

Aaaah ARHicks, we've all been there ... play more on the server and you'll admit you are wrong eventually, I have faith.

Steve wrote: 2. I mentioned that I—a subpar builder if you ask Invoker —

Dude...I would never...!

A flat +1 to all songs would not give bard builds any more diversity. It would be a feat taken by every bard build, likely those that only have a small dip in bard as well. It would be just too strong not to.

If anything there should be a feat to increase the DC of bard spells since even a CHA focused bard has relatively low spell DCs (due to low spell levels). That would make spell-casting bards more viable.

I know Selande tried to get an epic feat that acts like song of the heart added with a large charisma requirement. I believe that had a lot of support behind it but I cant find anywhere saying it was implemented. I am supportive of that because it is limited to high CHA it makes the 'weakest' bard build more viable and makes the more supportive bard archetype more playable.

That's this http://bgtscc.wikia.com/wiki/Epic_inspiration

And it's in game, and the slowing/jarring blending part has just been fixed.

PiaMango wrote:A flat +1 to all songs would not give bard builds any more diversity. It would be a feat taken by every bard build, likely those that only have a small dip in bard as well. It would be just too strong not to.

If anything there should be a feat to increase the DC of bard spells since even a CHA focused bard has relatively low spell DCs (due to low spell levels). That would make spell-casting bards more viable.

I know Selande tried to get an epic feat that acts like song of the heart added with a large charisma requirement. I believe that had a lot of support behind it but I cant find anywhere saying it was implemented. I am supportive of that because it is limited to high CHA it makes the 'weakest' bard build more viable and makes the more supportive bard archetype more playable.

........Or I can just play a sorcerer if I want to dump into Charisma and sling spells from the back of the group. I mean at least sorcerer has more nukes to play with and better spell DC. Most of the bards attack spells are at higher levels and in comparison with sorcerer.

There is an old saying about the Bard and it's why I build my bards the way I do. "Can do everything, but sucks at everything, the Bard..."

Bards are not suppose to excel at anything. Their strength is versatility, not specializing. I put points into parry because a bard can use that to tank if his AC is too low. (It is one of the reason why I try to avoid mithril fullplate armor builds.) I have songs to make up for the lack of spellpower. I get Song of Heart to increase attack damage on an attack damage straved class. I use Melodic Casting to be a makeshift battle priest when needed.

Plus, versatility prevents you from being bored.

Valefort wrote:That's this http://bgtscc.wikia.com/wiki/Epic_inspiration

And it's in game, and the slowing/jarring blending part has just been fixed.

Took me 4-5 years to lobby this into the game.

Charisma main bard stat!

ARHicks00 wrote:Bards are not suppose to excel at anything. Their strength is versatility, not specializing. I put points into parry because a bard can use that to tank if his AC is too low. (It is one of the reason why I try to avoid mithril fullplate armor builds.) I have songs to make up for the lack of spellpower. I get Song of Heart to increase attack damage on an attack damage straved class. I use Melodic Casting to be a makeshift battle priest when needed.

Bards like you say are supposed to be a jack of all trades, not excelling at any one thing but being decent at everything.

Bards excel at tanking. With mirror image/displacement/that DR spell a bard can solo tank bosses. There is a video somewhere of a bard soloing the balor on the top of greypeaks -naked-. Those spells on their own can make bards outshine dwarven defenders tanking. The only time I've ever done the Great White successfully was when a bard was tanking and they made it look like a puppy.

Bards excel at healing. Chorus of Requiem on its own makes Bards the best healers (unless you are going heal skill based healing). My first character was a cleric who focused on buffing/supporting/healing others. Whenever a bard was in the party she never would need to use a mass heal. Thats not to mention song of regeneration which is great to top up party members between mobs. They might not be kings in this regard now that faith healing from hierophant effects mass heal, but as someone who has thought over healing builds extensively I still would rather play a bard as a healer (if only it had the heal skill).

Bards excel at supporting other party members. Most spells on my cleric became less useful buffing when others are well geared, whereas bard buffs remain as good no matter how geared a melee or ranged character is. Greater heroism and inspire courage will always be +10 AB, +6 Damage. (Curse song for another effective 5 AB and haste which is oh so juicy for any melee/ranger)

Bards excel at everything skills. Greater heroism + inspire competence give bards a huge advantage in anything skill based. They are the best detectors (despite usually having low wisdom).

With all of its buffs a STR or EDM bard can get effectively as much AB as most melee builds and do comparable damage. Yes its not on weapon master level but thats with making only a small commitment of abilities/feats towards doing damage whereas a weapon master commits its whole build to doing damage and gets none of the versatility or bonuses to party members a bard has.