Athktatlan Triparite

[Valefort]

Yes.

[chad878262]

It should also be noted that if they no longer stack Sembian Fencing is worthless... The DEX bonus and the AB does not stack with DEX from items or AB/EB from a weapon. So if you have a magic weapon and access to items or spells to increase DEX you are essentially just getting a bonus to tumble and either +2 AB if you have 5 APR or +4 if you have 6 APR... I suppose if you really need those two attacks to hit the +4 AB could help, but at the expense of 4 attacks? Possibly this would have been really good for some builds with 6 APR to get up to +4 DEX, but now you can buy +4 stat items so DEX will eventually be available... One of the other QC'ers mentioned at one point it might be interesting as a dual wielder could possibly get really huge bonuses for losing 2 APR, but the offhand attacks are ignored. I suppose a character with PTWF could benefit here, still having 8 APR with the bonus to hit, if it applies to the offhand attacks.

In any case, I would say if they don't stack AT is clearly the better choice... When I tested way back when you definitely could have them active at the same time so SF made sense, since you only lost one more attack and gained some extra AB and the DEX bonus... In any case, let me know what you find when you test in JEGs.

[vbaddict]

Did a quick test in JEGs. Dragged Sembian and Athktatlan onto my hotbar. When I click on Athktatlan while Sembian is active, my Character Screen shows the Sembian bonuses automatically deactivating while Athktatlan comes online.

[vbaddict]

More specifically these feats toggle with a 6 second cooldown but the auto-deactivation mentioned in my previous post seems to be unknown by the toggle mechanism. Probably easier to describe by example. With just 1 feat alone, it is straight forward.

CLICK SEMBIAN BUTTON:
combat log shows *Sembian Fencing activated*, Character Info shows Sembian buffs

CLICK SEMBIAN BUTTON:
combat log shows *Sembian Fencing deactivated*, Character Info shows Sembian buffs gone


With both Sembian and Athktatlan, the toggle mechanism is able to get lost.

CLICK SEMBIAN BUTTON:
combat log shows *Sembian Fencing activated*, Character Info shows Sembian buffs

CLICK ATHKATHLAN BUTTON:
combat log shows *Athkathlan Triparte activated*, Character Info shows Sembian buffs gone and Athkathlan buffs added

CLICK SEMBIAN BUTTON:
combat log shows *Sembian Fencing deactivated*, Character Info shows no buffs

CLICK ATHKATHLAN BUTTON:
combat log shows *Athkathlan Triparte deactivated*, Character Info shows no buffs


Probably not a big deal, as I doubt in practice people will be quickly switching between the two feats.

[Steve]

Okay, maybe I missed this, but does Ath. Tri. work in combination with Combat Expertise?

[Valefort]

Yes.

[Steve]

Well shivver me timbers! I guess that's a +6 AC total I like to see!!!

[Toxen]

What exactly are the requirements for athktatlan triparite? I am level 15, and able to select sembian fencing, but i cannot pick athktatlan? How come? Thought both required 13dex only.


Can someone help me out?

[Steve]

What exactly are the requirements for athktatlan triparite? I am level 15, and able to select sembian fencing, but i cannot pick athktatlan? How come? Thought both required 13dex only.


Can someone help me out?

I can confirm that the requirements on the Wiki—DEX 13—are not enough to unlock this feat. Is there something missing in the Wiki description?

[Valefort]

Yep there was one hidden requirement indeed : 16 BAB.

[Steve]

Yep there was one hidden requirement indeed : 16 BAB.

Isn't that a little high?

[chad878262]

Well...If you think about it, any less than 16 BAB and the feat will have no effect. You need 4 APR before you can realize any benefit of activating Athkatlan Triparite.

edit: However, I can see how that could cause problems for builds with only having a feat available at 18, or if they are medium BAB builds not hitting 16 until after 18 and then needing to sacrifice an epic feat... It's a tough call, I remember advising Rasael before the March update went live that I had concerns folks would take the feats and be upset that they didn't do anything, or that they shouldn't have been allowed to take the feats until there was some benefit to it(Sembian Fencing has a similar hidden requirement for BAB11). So I guess you can blame this one on me as it appears they were changed to require BAB 11/16, but not documented.

[Steve]

Well...If you think about it, any less than 16 BAB and the feat will have no effect. You need 4 APR before you can realize any benefit of activating Athkatlan Triparite.

edit: However, I can see how that could cause problems for builds with only having a feat available at 18, or if they are medium BAB builds not hitting 16 until after 18 and then needing to sacrifice an epic feat... It's a tough call, I remember advising Rasael before the March update went live that I had concerns folks would take the feats and be upset that they didn't do anything, or that they shouldn't have been allowed to take the feats until there was some benefit to it(Sembian Fencing has a similar hidden requirement for BAB11). So I guess you can blame this one on me as it appears they were changed to require BAB 11/16, but not documented.

Well, one can't argue with the first part, considering that if you're giving up the 4th and higher attack(s), you probably need those attacks first, to qualify. Duh.

But damn guys...how many more hidden reqs. are STILL hiding about!!??!!?

[chad878262]

Well...If you think about it, any less than 16 BAB and the feat will have no effect. You need 4 APR before you can realize any benefit of activating Athkatlan Triparite.

edit: However, I can see how that could cause problems for builds with only having a feat available at 18, or if they are medium BAB builds not hitting 16 until after 18 and then needing to sacrifice an epic feat... It's a tough call, I remember advising Rasael before the March update went live that I had concerns folks would take the feats and be upset that they didn't do anything, or that they shouldn't have been allowed to take the feats until there was some benefit to it(Sembian Fencing has a similar hidden requirement for BAB11). So I guess you can blame this one on me as it appears they were changed to require BAB 11/16, but not documented.

Well, one can't argue with the first part, considering that if you're giving up the 4th and higher attack(s), you probably need those attacks first, to qualify. Duh.

But damn guys...how many more hidden reqs. are STILL hiding about!!??!!?

As I said, I take full responsibility for this one as I tested these melee feats and provided the feedback to Rasael... Just didn't get the changes updated in the actual description so it's on me.

[vbaddict]

I had posed this question in another thread. I was curious if the staff felt that Athkathlan was very powerful and that it should have a high prerequisite. If not, without the BAB prerequisite, more people would fit it into their builds. True, it would not do anything until a character gets their 4th attack. The benefit would just be the added flexibility to fit it into a build.

From JEGs it looks like Sembian also has a prerequisite of +11 BAB. Athkathlan appears to need +16 BAB. So unless a character has a very high BAB and can squeeze Athkathlan in right before level 20, it is an epic feat. Trading attacks for 2-3 AC/dmg could be powerful. Curious if our developers were thinking along these lines, or if the undocumented prerequisite is unintentionally high.